NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3108791 27-Jul-2023 15:11

As I said, IT companies would be chomping at the bit for something like this to be introduced, they'll be swan diving in their pools brimming with fresh $20 bank notes.... (or staring intently at a screen watching their bitcoin operations grow exponentially)..

sen8or

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#3108794 27-Jul-2023 15:21

Please no (rumour on Labour introducing GST free fruit/vege)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-pm-hipkins-to-speak-as-nicola-willis-claims-gst-tax-plan-on-the-cards/PQX6PXVXT5FPZAS7FZK2NYD4YM/

wellygary

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#3108803 27-Jul-2023 15:55

quickymart:

His polling of late has been extremely low. Mind you, the election is still about three months away.

I hope the conspiracy theory bs parties stay at the low levels they're at, they have no business being anywhere near government.

The saner parts of the "huntin/Shootin/Fishin" crowd have pretty much been all sucked up by ACT,

and the Seriously antivax crowd really don't trust him either - he was the Foreign Minister in Cabinet when the NZ borders were closed and the Country locked down in early 2020...

By ruling out Labour, he's burnt off a chunk in the middle that sympathise with Labour but want it a bit more conservative..

His potential supporters pool is much smaller than when he branded himself as the "middle" vote....

tdgeek

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#3108835 27-Jul-2023 18:18

IME this election is like no other. Its not about the issues we face, its like US politics. I am evil, but you are more evil so you lose. So its tax cuts, are your tax cuts better than mine???

Its about buying votes, and yes, that is politics, but the buying votes metric seems more than usual in 2023. In past times conservatism is a good option, or progressive is. Now, Covid and Ukraine have changed the dynamic, caused a lot pf problems that NZ has no choice but to ride the wave, so its open slather on Oct 14. The ironic thing is nothing will change.

I will probably not vote this year, which is actually a vote.

Rikkitic

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#3108854 27-Jul-2023 19:14

I am wrestling with it. I don't want to support any of them but if I don't vote, I will help National get in.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Bluntj

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#3108885 27-Jul-2023 21:16

Rikkitic:

I am wrestling with it. I don't want to support any of them but if I don't vote, I will help National get in.

We all have similar wrestles each election...just different parties. Coming up to 6 years with the current lot and tbh what have they achieved? Fruit and Vege policy will cost more to administer than its worth and Im skeptical if the ordinary Joe will win from this.

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gzt

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#3108893 27-Jul-2023 22:29

GV27: We have a broad, extremely logical system that we have been rightly reluctant to compromise with the kind of exemptions other countries have designed into their systems.

This is true. I think if NZ did do GST off food we would do it somewhat smarter and with less downside. Fresh fruit and vegetables for example I think is very very achievable.

Sure, you might pay GST on a mix of lettuce in a packed and gassed bag. Sure, you might pay GST on a mixed variety of min-tomatoes in a plastic container. Personally I think that's an acceptable tradeoff for simplicity.

GV27

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#3108907 28-Jul-2023 06:08

gzt:
GV27: We have a broad, extremely logical system that we have been rightly reluctant to compromise with the kind of exemptions other countries have designed into their systems.

This is true. I think if NZ did do GST off food we would do it somewhat smarter and with less downside. Fresh fruit and vegetables for example I think is very very achievable.

Sure, you might pay GST on a mix of lettuce in a packed and gassed bag. Sure, you might pay GST on a mixed variety of min-tomatoes in a plastic container. Personally I think that's an acceptable tradeoff for simplicity.

See the ATO guideline for what is and isn't considered 'fresh food' to see what a minefield it becomes. There's a reason the Australians wanted to copy ours from the outset.

The other issue Labour will have is Robertson has been dumping on this as an idea as recently as May, pointing out the complexity and ineffectiveness of it.

If this is really on the table, it will be the third major tax policy in a row that Robertson has been overruled on.

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#3108910 28-Jul-2023 06:49

The GST thing reminds of the removal of the fuel exise, I felt like the fuel companies would respond eventually by putting prices back to what the market could bear. I think it will be too complex in reality and as pointed out in earlier posts, there will be weird issues, like carrot cake.

I think the Maori party's tax policy might be more of a talking point.

tdgeek

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#3108911 28-Jul-2023 07:04

gzt:
GV27: We have a broad, extremely logical system that we have been rightly reluctant to compromise with the kind of exemptions other countries have designed into their systems.

This is true. I think if NZ did do GST off food we would do it somewhat smarter and with less downside. Fresh fruit and vegetables for example I think is very very achievable.

Sure, you might pay GST on a mix of lettuce in a packed and gassed bag. Sure, you might pay GST on a mixed variety of min-tomatoes in a plastic container. Personally I think that's an acceptable tradeoff for simplicity.

The only way you can keep it simple is to define them as picked. Loose tomatoes or tomatoes in a plastic box, they are picked. Unprocessed. I'd include frozen as well as they are picked and fresh. That's it

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#3108913 28-Jul-2023 07:10

Rikkitic:

I am wrestling with it. I don't want to support any of them but if I don't vote, I will help National get in.

In the greater scheme of things it really doesn't matter. All of the sectors that we bleat about won't change. If you want a tax cut or want to be a landlord, vote accordingly. Me, I rate Hipkins and Robertson, but where is the rest of the talent? I severely dont rate Luxon or Willis, and again where is the rest of the talent?

This election isnt about the issues its about bagging, so voters, do whatever you like as far as I am concerned. Both will offer tax bribes, one will offer GST off some food the other will spend a few more bucks on wild goats, that is literally it! :-)

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sen8or

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#3108941 28-Jul-2023 08:22

So our new revenue minister thinks GST off fresh fruit/veges is "not a bad idea", that should be all the insight into her level of intelligence the country needs, especially when virtually every other expert has either condemned the idea completely or at the least, pointed out the extreme complexity of it. Clearly a Hipkins puppet......

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-leaks-national-reveals-labours-tax-policy-gst-off-fresh-fruit-and-vegetables-dubbed-boondoggle-by-grant-robertson/LDS32AKYPJFPJG5PNA55QYIOPI/

GV27

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#3108954 28-Jul-2023 09:01

sen8or:

So our new revenue minister thinks GST off fresh fruit/veges is "not a bad idea", that should be all the insight into her level of intelligence the country needs, especially when virtually every other expert has either condemned the idea completely or at the least, pointed out the extreme complexity of it. Clearly a Hipkins puppet......

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-leaks-national-reveals-labours-tax-policy-gst-off-fresh-fruit-and-vegetables-dubbed-boondoggle-by-grant-robertson/LDS32AKYPJFPJG5PNA55QYIOPI/

The Finance Minister has been pouring cold water on it from an operational perspective... while the Revenue Minister then turns around and big-ups it?

This is not a recipe for functional government.

What will the next poll show, and how will the bottom 20 List MPs take the news?

ockel

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#3108986 28-Jul-2023 09:45

tdgeek:

The only way you can keep it simple is to define them as picked. Loose tomatoes or tomatoes in a plastic box, they are picked. Unprocessed. I'd include frozen as well as they are picked and fresh. That's it

I'd argue that some frozen is processed (someone has taken the peas out of the pod or the corn off the cob) but some is not (frozen corn cobs). So do frozen potatoes (fries) count as processed or not?

On the face of the GST free food and veg it could be about $1.3bn per year (or $750 per average househould if it flowed down to the household - which the evidence suggests it doesnt). Where does that money come from? More borrowing, more taxes? Thats the corollary to the removal of a tax element.

Its a minefield. TPM's policy is equally so. Their estimate of the cost of removing GST appears to be based on supermarket/grocery turnover plus specialty food retailing turnover. But not everything in a supermarket food - where would you classify toilet paper for example - should food only fit for human consumption be classified as removing GST? That include fast foods and restaurants? So is it food for human consumption only sold in supermarkets? Why bakery goods from the supermarket but not the bread shop next door? Yes to the bread shop next door? OK is the pizza bread GST free or not - and if GST free the why not the pizza sold in the food court?

Can of worms.

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tdgeek

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#3108990 28-Jul-2023 09:54

ockel:

I'd argue that some frozen is processed (someone has taken the peas out of the pod or the corn off the cob) but some is not (frozen corn cobs). So do frozen potatoes (fries) count as processed or not?

On the face of the GST free food and veg it could be about $1.3bn per year (or $750 per average househould if it flowed down to the household - which the evidence suggests it doesnt). Where does that money come from? More borrowing, more taxes? Thats the corollary to the removal of a tax element.

Its a minefield. TPM's policy is equally so. Their estimate of the cost of removing GST appears to be based on supermarket/grocery turnover plus specialty food retailing turnover. But not everything in a supermarket food - where would you classify toilet paper for example - should food only fit for human consumption be classified as removing GST? That include fast foods and restaurants? So is it food for human consumption only sold in supermarkets? Why bakery goods from the supermarket but not the bread shop next door? Yes to the bread shop next door? OK is the pizza bread GST free or not - and if GST free the why not the pizza sold in the food court?

Can of worms.

In my view frozen peas are picked. If they havent undergone any post picking process, had other stuff added, they are picked peas

In any case a poor person wont spend a lot on them so GST savings will be low. Better off people buy more, so will save more, so its not exactly aimed at the target market correctly

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