NZ 2023 Election Thread

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › NZ 2023 Election Thread

1 | ... | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | ... | 102

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148376 17-Oct-2023 11:36

Crossing the floor to vote should not trigger a coalition to implode if the vote is not a supply vote. A mature democracy should be able to accommodate choice and question.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

GV27

5978 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3148377 17-Oct-2023 11:55

It's reasonable to assume that some people are spending less due to higher interest rates, but the question I want to know the answer to is who is spending less - is it households chasing higher returns on cash that they'd rather have in the bank than spent on lifestyle products or is it people with mortgages being absolutely pummeled and doing so out of necessity?

GV27

5978 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3148378 17-Oct-2023 12:00

I'd like to see Hipkins stay on as leader. He would have almost total free rein to change any of his previous stances on policy, and never really got the chance to run Labour his way - he got to put the broom to some policies but I think he never got the chance to articulate his own personal policy preferences that wasn't just a pained continuation of the Ardern era.

Although I don't think it's likely we will have another election any time soon, Labour should probably be preparing for one either way. And it's clear their existing suite of policy didn't have many winners so they'll need new ones.

If I in the room today voting on reinstating Hipkins as Labour leader I would also be looking to do a deal with TOP, ala Epsom, just to give myself more wriggle room and I'd be talking about doing it now, publicly.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148380 17-Oct-2023 12:11

I feel that Chris Hipkins will see the transfer to National/Act/? through then will step down as leader possibly early in the new year. I have no idea on a possible successor. Should he step down? No, with the possibility that the incoming government will be as stable as a bowel of jelly the Labour Party needs to give the impression of stability.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9564

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3148382 17-Oct-2023 12:20

MikeB4: I feel that Chris Hipkins will see the transfer to National/Act/? through then will step down as leader possibly early in the new year. I have no idea on a possible successor. Should he step down? No, with the possibility that the incoming government will be as stable as a bowel of jelly the Labour Party needs to give the impression of stability.

Seems unlikely they will have figured out what cost them the election in that short a period of time. The Green Party is the 3rd largest party in parliament. It's time for them to step up as the defacto Mainstream Left Party now. Labour had their day.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

GV27

5978 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3148384 17-Oct-2023 12:30

SaltyNZ:

Seems unlikely they will have figured out what cost them the election in that short a period of time. The Green Party is the 3rd largest party in parliament. It's time for them to step up as the defacto Mainstream Left Party now. Labour had their day.

The Greens aren't exactly known for the kind of compromise that you need to assume the mantle of one of the two largest parties.

Well, James Shaw is but they tried to give him the boot at one point for that specific reason. So I can't see it somehow.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3148386 17-Oct-2023 12:32

SaltyNZ:

Seems unlikely they will have figured out what cost them the election in that short a period of time. The Green Party is the 3rd largest party in parliament. It's time for them to step up as the defacto Mainstream Left Party now. Labour had their day.

IMO most if not all Covid govts got booted. So they are all blamed. Labour had a conservative offering to the voters due to the economic times, National had a liberal offering to the voters with the flagship Tax Policy that has been widely criticised as not fully funded and inflationary. But for many times are hard and understandably they took the money

Greens are great, but I can't accept their far left social policies, same as ACT's far right social policies. Greens are about green, now is that time

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148387 17-Oct-2023 12:35

@SaltyNZ I agree regarding Green NZ, however they have always seemed reluctant to do so and give the impression of lacking confidence in themselves. I find it frustrating as I have given my party vote to the Green party in the previous 3 elections except this election.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148388 17-Oct-2023 12:39

I don't see the Green Party as far left. I also don't see Act as far right. National and Labour are centre, Act right of centre and Green centre left.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3148413 17-Oct-2023 13:25

MikeB4:

I don't see the Green Party as far left. I also don't see Act as far right. National and Labour are centre, Act right of centre and Green centre left.

Typically we hear that the two main parties are centre left and centre right ACT as far right is how I see it, not that every policy they have is extreme

Greens social policies are very very left. Back in the day left was stuff the businesses and right was stuff the workers. Luckily the main parties are far more centre these days, as workers and businesses need each other. But if a party strays too far it becomes radical, as I feel that Greens social policies are, as are many of ACTs

Fortunately we have a party that is focused on GREEN, and without being comical, they are "right" (correct)

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148421 17-Oct-2023 13:53

@tdgeek you should do some comparison with overseas political spectrums. Our main parties don't stray far from the centre. Social policies are not "very very" left they are prudent and socially responsible.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3148431 17-Oct-2023 14:37

Andrew Little has annoyed me. He was number 12 on the list and retires from politics three days after the election. Very poor form and showing little regard to the voting public of Aotearoa.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1684

ID Verified

Trusted

#3148432 17-Oct-2023 14:45

tdgeek:

Greens are great, but I can't accept their far left social policies, same as ACT's far right social policies. Greens are about green, now is that time

They don't really have much of a choice in the matter. Those "far left" social policies are in the Global Greens charter, which binds virtually every Green Party in the world (except the Green Party of the US, who aren't a member, and whose policies are actually even further left)

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9564

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3148434 17-Oct-2023 14:58

Kyanar:

They don't really have much of a choice in the matter. Those "far left" social policies are in the Global Greens charter, which binds virtually every Green Party in the world (except the Green Party of the US, who aren't a member, and whose policies are actually even further left)

I think you'll find the NZ Green Party would be following those policies even in the absence of a Global Greens movement. You can't have real environmental change without the social justice changes. Any massive societal change is going to have consequences for someone. But unlike, say, the car industry vs. the saddle-makers, the Green party knows we have a responsibility towards the coal miners who would be out of a job when the mine closes down.

If you don't bring people along with you, you can't make those changes.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

marmel

1924 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 226

ID Verified

Trusted

#3148448 17-Oct-2023 15:19

evilengineer:

As you say, we should be concentrating on the National Party as it is now, not as it was three years ago.

They seem to have no problem at all pulling the old reverse ferret on stuff they've already agreed too when its convenient.

Other examples include backing out of the bipartisan medium density housing rules when the leafy suburbs started complaining and dropping He Waka Eke Noa in the face of a farmer's backlash at what was already a pretty weak set set of proposals.

You think a policy that was going to make 20% of all sheep and beef farms uneconomic as being weak?

1 | ... | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | ... | 102