No government money for fewer cars in Christchurch

Please note this sub-forum does not provide professional finance advice. You should seek advice from a licensed financial advisor.

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification.

If investing please consider our affiliate link for new accounts: Sharesies.

Forums › Finance and wealth management › No government money for fewer cars in Christchurch

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

809 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1767385 19-Apr-2017 14:45

CCC aren't making a profit, fares account for roughly half running costs (if they've met their mandated quota, I don't know if they have). They aren't allowed to dip below 50% funded by fares, that's a national limit that applies to all regions btw. If you want higher funding from tax/rates it'll mean voting out National to (hopefully) lower that limit - which brings us nicely back to OPs position.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1767392 19-Apr-2017 14:58

It does. Thread concluded as nothing will change. As Joker97 said, it will take 5 years to decide, 5 years to design, and so on, which equates to nothing. The populous will evolve, and congregate where it is easier to do so, and work where it is easier should those options exist. Hence we will have that space, where we choose, and flag the CBD, which will need renaming to BD

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#1767450 19-Apr-2017 16:44

nickb800:

Paul1977:

I live in Christchurch, and the public transport is a joke. And now they seem to be trying to make the CBD is unfriendly to cars as possible, while offering no suitable alternative.

Until public transport is fast and convenient then I'll be sticking to my car, and avoiding the CBD. I'd wager the majority of Christchurch residents will do the same.

How are they making the CBD unfriendly to cars? Most of the roadworks under the accessible city project are effectively fixing earthquake/rebuild damaged roads, and keeping the same number of motor vehicle lanes. The council has spent the best part of $100m rebuilding the Lichfield St carpark and subsidising The Crossing carpark.

Here's a novel thought - *everyone* is a pedestrian at some point in their journey - you can't drive your car to your desk at work, to a table at a restaurant, or the checkout counter in a shop. Making the city more pleasant for pedestrians is making it more pleasant for everyone. Who enjoyed walking down the side of the one-way streets pre-quake with several lanes of traffic zooming past at 50kmh?

What is changing is the provision of on-street parking, which is being reduced to provide for the safety and convenience of other transport modes. The point isn't to make everyone bike/walk/bus, just a few people that can conveniently do so, therefore reducing congestion for everyone - including single occupant motor vehicles.

Let's keep it in perspective. It is still possible to get free on-street all-day parking within 10mins walk of the core CBD. Heck, I drove to work towing a trailer and parked on street for free on a weekday. If a 10min walk from a free carpark is too much, then there are ample choices of $5 per day workday parking, which for a city of our size is ridiculously cheap. Wellington is more like $15+, and Auckland $20+

The worst part is the lack of convenient parking (and I don't mean the expensive gravel pits that Wilsons call carparks). But also narrowing many of the roads in order to accommodate ridiculously wide footpaths. And don't even get me started on the 30kph speed limit.

I don't work in town, so my visits would almost exclusively be in the weekend - and it always seems to be a nightmare to find a convenient park.

Perhaps things will be better once it is all finished, but who knows when that will be.

There are plenty of arguments for both sides, but my own personal experiences have left me wanting to avoid the CBD unless absolutely necessary. It seems like an absolute cluster-fudge to me.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1767545 19-Apr-2017 20:07

Paul1977:

nickb800:

Paul1977:

I live in Christchurch, and the public transport is a joke. And now they seem to be trying to make the CBD is unfriendly to cars as possible, while offering no suitable alternative.

Until public transport is fast and convenient then I'll be sticking to my car, and avoiding the CBD. I'd wager the majority of Christchurch residents will do the same.

How are they making the CBD unfriendly to cars? Most of the roadworks under the accessible city project are effectively fixing earthquake/rebuild damaged roads, and keeping the same number of motor vehicle lanes. The council has spent the best part of $100m rebuilding the Lichfield St carpark and subsidising The Crossing carpark.

Here's a novel thought - *everyone* is a pedestrian at some point in their journey - you can't drive your car to your desk at work, to a table at a restaurant, or the checkout counter in a shop. Making the city more pleasant for pedestrians is making it more pleasant for everyone. Who enjoyed walking down the side of the one-way streets pre-quake with several lanes of traffic zooming past at 50kmh?

What is changing is the provision of on-street parking, which is being reduced to provide for the safety and convenience of other transport modes. The point isn't to make everyone bike/walk/bus, just a few people that can conveniently do so, therefore reducing congestion for everyone - including single occupant motor vehicles.

Let's keep it in perspective. It is still possible to get free on-street all-day parking within 10mins walk of the core CBD. Heck, I drove to work towing a trailer and parked on street for free on a weekday. If a 10min walk from a free carpark is too much, then there are ample choices of $5 per day workday parking, which for a city of our size is ridiculously cheap. Wellington is more like $15+, and Auckland $20+

The worst part is the lack of convenient parking (and I don't mean the expensive gravel pits that Wilsons call carparks). But also narrowing many of the roads in order to accommodate ridiculously wide footpaths. And don't even get me started on the 30kph speed limit.

I don't work in town, so my visits would almost exclusively be in the weekend - and it always seems to be a nightmare to find a convenient park.

Perhaps things will be better once it is all finished, but who knows when that will be.

There are plenty of arguments for both sides, but my own personal experiences have left me wanting to avoid the CBD unless absolutely necessary. It seems like an absolute cluster-fudge to me.

Whats everyones thoughts on pre EQ CBD compared to now? I worked there, it was normal. I rarely now go to CBD as I worked in various burbs and now at home. There were 50,000 working there, obviously less now. Wilsons custom designed quarries still exist, so at the moment, parking shouldn't be an issue?

My personal opinion which is close to Rikkitic's, is to make Cashel to Gloucester (S-N) and Avon River to Manchester (W-E) all pedestrian. But you would need to provide good parking for people to go there. One day, Public Transport may rule, but not now.

Public Transport wise, it seems to me that theres no innovative thinking. Trams, why not? They are light-light rail more or less. In ChCh CBD you cannot widen streets. But you can re use roads, narrow some a tad, remove some, build there. Add mini parks, mini pond, kids playground, qualified supervision of that. Family environment to take kids, shop, play, cafe, bars. Pop a Westfield type mall somewhere.

Breath of fresh air.

TwoSeven

1623 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1767861 20-Apr-2017 12:36

Rikkitic:

shk292:

I think you're dreaming if you think there will be fewer provate cars in NZ within 10-20 years. Kiwis (or at least the ones who don't live in inner-city apartments and wish they were Scandinavian) like to do things like towing boats to the beach, going surfing, taking the family plus dog plus a whole heap of gear on holiday, driving to a mate's farm to go hunting, going to the DIY store to bring back a load of stuff to do up their house etc, etc etc. Plus, a city like ChCh doesn't have (or probably want) the population density to make decent mass transport cost effective. The only thing excluding cars from inner cities will achieve is making those areas solely used by the inner-city hipsters that live there.

As the country fills up, these things will change. You can't live in the 1950s forever.

I don't doubt that some people will continue to need cars, or will have them for road trips, but they will cease to be necessary or desirable for urban living and cities will no longer be designed around them. This is already the case in some parts of Europe.

I think that is quite a utopian view of things. I might also point out that much of the European road system was initially constructed nearly 2000 years ago and has had quite a bit of time to be improved and expanded.

I think cities can be considered amorphous entities and the populations tend to ebb and flow from one side to another (or into and out of) them each day. Also, one has to consider that cities are full of people of different ages, cultures, needs and wants, so a good urban design I think for the inside of a town and city needs to cater for all of this - that means motor/electric vehicle, cycle, rail and the like. While technology my shape the type of transport in the future, the need for flexibility I think will likely mean that person transport will be around for a while.

Another issue I think is important is to think about developing the commuter belt around each town and city. The ability to live on the outskirts of a city where accommodation is cheaper and potentially more available and still be able to get into or across the city for work purposes is just as important as developing the internal infrastructure. Again rail, motor/electric and potentially cycle is important, but the structure and cost is different.

Finally, expanding that even further is the ability to efficiently travel into the city from outlying areas and from other towns and cities - again, the price of accommodation is a factor but it also means that people are able to travel into and out of the city for work and leisure which can often reduce the reliance of having to centralise everything in one place.

Software Engineer
(the practice of real science, engineering and management)
A.I. (Automation rebranded)
Gender Neutral
(a person who believes in equality and who does not believe in/use stereotypes. Examples such as gender, binary, nonbinary, male/female etc.)

...they/their/them...

bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1768267 21-Apr-2017 08:48

http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-04-2017/parking-nightmare-how-the-car-lobby-is-hijacking-the-christchurch-cbd-rebuild/

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1768308 21-Apr-2017 09:47

bmt:

http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-04-2017/parking-nightmare-how-the-car-lobby-is-hijacking-the-christchurch-cbd-rebuild/

Perhaps those who so strenuously objected to my satirical poke at the Minister will cast their discerning approval on this piece, which pretty much says the same thing I tried to, but does it much better. Perhaps it is also worth pointing out that my original post has in fact succeeded quite well at provoking a serious discussion of this subject, so mocking Brownlee's appetite and exercise regime may have served a purpose after all.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#1768310 21-Apr-2017 09:48

tdgeek:

Whats everyones thoughts on pre EQ CBD compared to now? I worked there, it was normal. I rarely now go to CBD as I worked in various burbs and now at home. There were 50,000 working there, obviously less now. Wilsons custom designed quarries still exist, so at the moment, parking shouldn't be an issue?

My personal opinion which is close to Rikkitic's, is to make Cashel to Gloucester (S-N) and Avon River to Manchester (W-E) all pedestrian. But you would need to provide good parking for people to go there. One day, Public Transport may rule, but not now.

Public Transport wise, it seems to me that theres no innovative thinking. Trams, why not? They are light-light rail more or less. In ChCh CBD you cannot widen streets. But you can re use roads, narrow some a tad, remove some, build there. Add mini parks, mini pond, kids playground, qualified supervision of that. Family environment to take kids, shop, play, cafe, bars. Pop a Westfield type mall somewhere.

Breath of fresh air.

Maybe I'm a snob; but I take issue with paying a quite high rate to park in a dusty, stony, potholed vacant lot. The all-day parking rates might be alright, but Wilsons are quite expensive for shorter times.

EDIT: With Wilsons, I feel like I am paying a premium price for a very budget product/service.

BTR

1527 posts

Uber Geek

#1769511 24-Apr-2017 09:10

1. You are obviously not from Christchurch and have never tried to find a carpark while attempting to make a hospital appointment there.

2. eCan aren't even interested in getting cars of the right to reduce congestion on our northern motorway, their solution is add more buses which are just going to sit in the same congestion when residents have been asking for a light rail service and keep being told no 10M is to expensive for light rail.

3. Most CCC parking buildings were damaged in the quakes and closed or pulled down, Wilson parking popped up everywhere but boy are they taking advantage and charging a fortune. As a result I now only travel into the city for work.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1769534 24-Apr-2017 10:16

Paul1977:

tdgeek:

Whats everyones thoughts on pre EQ CBD compared to now? I worked there, it was normal. I rarely now go to CBD as I worked in various burbs and now at home. There were 50,000 working there, obviously less now. Wilsons custom designed quarries still exist, so at the moment, parking shouldn't be an issue?

My personal opinion which is close to Rikkitic's, is to make Cashel to Gloucester (S-N) and Avon River to Manchester (W-E) all pedestrian. But you would need to provide good parking for people to go there. One day, Public Transport may rule, but not now.

Public Transport wise, it seems to me that theres no innovative thinking. Trams, why not? They are light-light rail more or less. In ChCh CBD you cannot widen streets. But you can re use roads, narrow some a tad, remove some, build there. Add mini parks, mini pond, kids playground, qualified supervision of that. Family environment to take kids, shop, play, cafe, bars. Pop a Westfield type mall somewhere.

Breath of fresh air.

Maybe I'm a snob; but I take issue with paying a quite high rate to park in a dusty, stony, potholed vacant lot. The all-day parking rates might be alright, but Wilsons are quite expensive for shorter times.

EDIT: With Wilsons, I feel like I am paying a premium price for a very budget product/service.

Trying to get out of a Wilson parking lot in a wheel chair is like trying to ride over a river bank.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1769535 24-Apr-2017 10:17

Rikkitic:

bmt:

http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-04-2017/parking-nightmare-how-the-car-lobby-is-hijacking-the-christchurch-cbd-rebuild/

Perhaps those who so strenuously objected to my satirical poke at the Minister will cast their discerning approval on this piece, which pretty much says the same thing I tried to, but does it much better. Perhaps it is also worth pointing out that my original post has in fact succeeded quite well at provoking a serious discussion of this subject, so mocking Brownlee's appetite and exercise regime may have served a purpose after all.

Argue the points not the person. Mr Brownlees size has zero relevance to the topic.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1769563 24-Apr-2017 10:34

Honestly Mike, if the many excellent satirical TV shows America is so rich in, like Saturday Night Live, only argued the points and not the person, they would be pretty dreary affairs. I am in no way comparing my wit to theirs, just saying there may be a valid reason for exaggerating the physical characteristics of someone like Sean Spicer or Donald Trump in order to make a point. This is a legitimate device to use.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1769834 24-Apr-2017 15:29

Rikkitic:

Honestly Mike, if the many excellent satirical TV shows America is so rich in, like Saturday Night Live, only argued the points and not the person, they would be pretty dreary affairs. I am in no way comparing my wit to theirs, just saying there may be a valid reason for exaggerating the physical characteristics of someone like Sean Spicer or Donald Trump in order to make a point. This is a legitimate device to use.

A TV personality does not make it right. It is the same as denigrating someone because of age, race, creed, disability, hair colour, gender, sexual preference etc. all equally offensive.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1769853 24-Apr-2017 15:51

I agree with you in the case of private people. Politicians are another matter and are fair game for ridicule. If they can't handle it they have no business being in politics.

Brownlee is clearly overweight, some would say grossly so. Maybe he can't help it. But pointing that out in the context of him complaining about not being able to drive right up to some place for lunch, as if that is the worst possible thing in the world, is a completely legitimate use of caricature for the purpose of satire. I see no need to apologise for it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1770103 25-Apr-2017 10:08

This isn't really a line of discussion this thread should be going down.. But now Brownlee is the new Foreign Minister, our senior diplomat and for all intents and purposes our main representative on the world stage - well, there is no denying he is grossly obese, and I am embarrassed by him representing New Zealand. As a member of the NZDF while he was Minister of Defence I was similarly embarrassed - extendable seatbelts on flights, ill fitting lifejackets and "flak jackets" etc..

As for Wilsons, there is a simple solution if you don't appreciate the "service" they are offering. Basic economics would suggest they see no need to improve their parking lots, so unless people stop using them nothing will change. They aren't a government or council service so have no obligation to people, just themselves.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6