Legal to make backups of movies I own?

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255 posts

Ultimate Geek

#357151 27-Jul-2010 15:05

freitasm:
You have the option to legally buy movies from iTunes...

True, but I want more, I want TV on demand, and I want it HD and 5.1, and I want the option to watch it where I want and wherever I want. (demanding huh?) but this what having a home media center has done to my viewing habits.

It records my shows, stores them for viewing at a time that suits and every night i pick a few shows to convert to watch on the bus the next day.

If I could subscribe to a service that saves me the administrative work involved in the above setup, with a good range of viewing and a price competitive to sky, i'd do it.

and on a side note...
If anything, what the apple app store model has shown us is that if the price is right, the vast majority of people won't bother stealing, and those few that do always will steal, and aren't worth persuing, case in point:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/17400810200.shtml

dclegg

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#357156 27-Jul-2010 15:23

freitasm: Correct. It's currently not legal to create copies (format shift) of digital movies, even for backup purposes. You are allowed to do so for music recordings.

Is it legal to make a copy of the soundtrack only of a DVD you own then? I like to do that with concert DVDs I purchase, so I can listen to them on my iPod.

heavenlywild

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#361661 2-Aug-2010 15:28

Hmmm just a question guys - if this is illegal, then how come there are software companies that offer this type of "back up" functionality and get away with it? Or is that different?

freitasm

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#361669 2-Aug-2010 15:40

It is illegal in New Zealand, but legal in other countries - including the U.S.

heavenlywild

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#361703 2-Aug-2010 16:21

Hmmm, if that is the case, then are we basically breaking the law by downloading this software?

If we were to convert the video to our hard drives while overseas, it would be legal. When we come back, it's still sitting in our hard drives but the content now becomes illegal? Hmmm... the law doesn't really work practically.

freitasm

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#361705 2-Aug-2010 16:22

You can download the software to conver home made videos for example.

heavenlywild

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#361722 2-Aug-2010 16:42

Fair enough freitasm:)

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buzzy

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Master Geek

#361733 2-Aug-2010 17:07

heavenlywild: Hmmm, if that is the case, then are we basically breaking the law by downloading this software?

Yep, in the same way that owning a photocopier is illegal ;). Owning the tool isn't illegal; using it for illegal purposes is.

heavenlywild: If we were to convert the video to our hard drives while overseas, it would be legal. When we come back, it's still sitting in our hard drives but the content now becomes illegal? Hmmm... the law doesn't really work practically.

Essentially, yes. I believe most of the large content producers have informally stated that they're not interested in pursuing people who format shift movies for their own home use (for example, to play back on an iPod, or from your laptop), because it's not really in anyone's interests to do so.

I'd be interested in the definition of "format shift" in the bill itself though; it'd be very easy to write it in a way that made watching a DVD illegal - on the basis that it shifts the data from a binary format to an audio-visual one, for example.

Lias

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#361762 2-Aug-2010 17:44

When we move to a "pay what you think its worth" system for all movies, music, software etc, then piracy will mostly cease. Until then, everything that can be pirated, will be pirated.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

freitasm

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#361768 2-Aug-2010 17:50

Lias: When we move to a "pay what you think its worth" system for all movies, music, software etc, then piracy will mostly cease. Until then, everything that can be pirated, will be pirated.

It won't work because people will simply say "it's on the Internet so it should be free" and things will stop there.

mattk

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Ultimate Geek

#361910 2-Aug-2010 21:10

freitasm:
Lias: When we move to a "pay what you think its worth" system for all movies, music, software etc, then piracy will mostly cease. Until then, everything that can be pirated, will be pirated.

It won't work because people will simply say "it's on the Internet so it should be free" and things will stop there.

Worked for Radiohead?

buzzy

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Master Geek

#361921 2-Aug-2010 21:23

mattk: Worked for Radiohead?

Suuuuure it did. That wasn't "pay whatever you like". It was "we've already made our millions through conventional channels, so here's a nifty publicity stunt. Most of our legion of fans will probably pay, and even if they don't pay for the download, they'll still be queueing up next week to buy the limited edition double vinyl."

The "limited edition" physical discs were still licensed to the record labels to distribute, because record labels are actually quite good at that sort of thing.

Try to download "in rainbows" without paying for it now. www.inrainbows.com says it's no longer available as a download. Publicity stunt over; time to start charging a set price again.

Name me one other well known audio or video artist who distributes their work with a "pay what you want" ethos. One who didn't first get famous through conventional means. I know of one, and I wouldn't say he's all that famous. That said, I do think his stuff is worth checking out: www.TomCosm.com

smac

333 posts

Ultimate Geek

#361957 2-Aug-2010 21:58

I admit I haven't read the whole thread.....but I think one comment is
still relevant: the days of big business claiming financial loss through
pirating are numbered. Artists who make their money through album sales
have been few and far between for a loong time. Oasis would be one of
the last big ones (multi millionaires in a week, crazy stuff) . It's in
concerts, endorsements, and paid appearances. To make money from THOSE
things the artists need their content out there, but they really don't
care how it gets there. But the ones who lose are the record companies,
and they are the ones squealing about it. You'll notice more and more
'significant' artists are making headway without a big label behind
them.......as I said, times are a changing....

Quite right that
Radiohead's gig only worked as well as it did cause they were already
known......but that model HAS been used quite successfully by lesser
known artists.

Here's the thing: if an agent gets 10c from an
album sale, and the artist gets 5c (made up numbers), and they sell 2
mill worldwide, the artist is happy, and the company does ok for their
investment....

Now if that same artist hasn't sold squat in
albums, but does 10 interviews for 10k a shot off the back of getting
known on you tube, the artist's happy, but doesn't need Sony to get him
there, a manager on a 1% cut will get him those interviews......so guess
why it's the agents crying foul to the governments begging for
help...if only they had a talent they could sell......

freitasm

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#361962 2-Aug-2010 22:05

mattk:
freitasm:
Lias: When we move to a "pay what you think its worth" system for all movies, music, software etc, then piracy will mostly cease. Until then, everything that can be pirated, will be pirated.

It won't work because people will simply say "it's on the Internet so it should be free" and things will stop there.

Worked for Radiohead?

My post should have an [irony] tag attached to it, since Lias who propose to "pay what you think its worth" is the same person who already said in another post "I dont pay simply because I'm actively opposed to paying for ANY product, content or service on the internet, and I dont see sufficent value to override that."

So I doubt the "pay what you think is worth" would work.

mattk

255 posts

Ultimate Geek

#361970 2-Aug-2010 22:12

buzzy:
mattk: Worked for Radiohead?

Suuuuure it did. That wasn't "pay whatever you like". It was "we've already made our millions through conventional channels, so here's a nifty publicity stunt. Most of our legion of fans will probably pay, and even if they don't pay for the download, they'll still be queueing up next week to buy the limited edition double vinyl."

The "limited edition" physical discs were still licensed to the record labels to distribute, because record labels are actually quite good at that sort of thing.

Try to download "in rainbows" without paying for it now. www.inrainbows.com says it's no longer available as a download. Publicity stunt over; time to start charging a set price again.

Name me one other well known audio or video artist who distributes their work with a "pay what you want" ethos. One who didn't first get famous through conventional means. I know of one, and I wouldn't say he's all that famous. That said, I do think his stuff is worth checking out: www.TomCosm.com

http://dl.nin.com/theslip/signup

Same as radiohead i guess, made their money and bashing the labels now. Smashing pumpkins also went nuts and gave away pretty much everything, and also recently did this:

http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=43586_0_2_0_C

but same again - made the money already.

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