HDTV Hardware security?? - Stuff.co.nz Article

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lchiu7

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#38501 14-Jun-2006 15:25

chiefie: SBiddle. that's what I thought too.. HDMI has the HDCP implement in them... I was a bit unsure with what Sky's announcement is about.

Though you do get a lot of people that not knowing HD Ready tv is really HDMI available on the set. However, not all manufacturer do provide HDMI, and i still see Sony's Bravia provides VGA input for their Bravia mid range, instead of HDMI... surprised me...

Glad my Philips has HDMI... wish it has dual HDMI inputs though.. hmmm...

Also, how can one make use of the HDMI's audio input?

I think the retailers and the manufacturers to a certain extent have classified a set as HD ready as being able to display with full resolution, the two primary HD standard signals, 720p and 1080i. Note that many LCD panels can't even do that since they are 1024x768. Any lots of the 42" panels out there are are only 852x? or EDTV resolution.

As for having HDCP compliant inputs, they could argue that this is not a requirement for a set to be HD ready. For example if TVNZ or TV3 decide to transmit HD content either OTA (unlikely given the cost that BCL would incur to ensure the signal could be reached all over NZ) or via satellite or in the case of TV3 over cable, there is nothing to stop them providing a set top box that has HDMI or DVI outputs without HDCP and or component output. So how could the consumer complain about one provider's implementation in this case Sky?

Also my understanding from the reviews that the first HD-DVD players from Toshiba in the US don't implement HDCP or even the ICT so any HD ready set with component inputs will get full resolution.

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ljbade

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#38507 14-Jun-2006 16:08

A TV with HDMI connectors doesn't neccasirly have HDCP! I'd go double check you TV's manual just to be sure. Remember HDCP was only finalized recently, unlike HDMI which has been around for longer.

As for getting audio on HDMI, if your DVD/Sky Box doesn't send the audio via HDMI (which it should) then you can get cables that take a HDMI video source, and a digital SPDIF audio source and combine them.

If you check Wikipedia you will see the HDMI has the same pins and signal format as DVI (ie computer LCD screen connector) as well as a couple extra for the digital SPDIF audio singnal, and a control/data pin. (similar idea you could say to SCART cept it is digital).

sbiddle

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#38521 14-Jun-2006 17:10

ljbade: A TV with HDMI connectors doesn't neccasirly have HDCP!

I agree that HDCP isn't part of the HDMI specifications so therefore a TV can have HDMI and not support HDCP however from what I've been told there don't appear to be any examples of TV's in NZ on sale right now that have HDMI and don't have HDCP. Because of the EU requirements as of last year that require a unit to have HDCP support before it can be sold as "HD ready" or "HD capable" it essentially shut any manufacturers out of the market who were building screens without HDCP.

lchiu7

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#38559 14-Jun-2006 21:14

One of the reasons a year ago when I was looking at RP TV's and specifically the Sony GW series and decided not to get one, was because it didn't have VGA inputs. It also didn't have DVI or HDMI either but at the time didn't think it was relevant. I decided to get the Toshiba 52" DLP instead which has VGA and HDMI. Glad I did that

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cyril7

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#38563 14-Jun-2006 21:50

Also my understanding from the reviews that the first HD-DVD players from Toshiba in the US don't implement HDCP or even the ICT so any HD ready set with component inputs will get full resolution.

It is my understanding that the players do implement HDCP, but its the current release of HD-DVD discs that instruct the players to request secure code transfers, dont exist.

The situation is no different for Sky, HDCP is optional, if the material being transported does not require the DVD or DVB device to impose HDCP security then it is not required. The only material that to my knowledge that requires HDCP protection is that material that is under the anal copyright protection of major US Movie producers, HDCP protection currently is not applied to normal HD broadcast material in the US (ie your everday HD primetime viewing by the networks) only Hollywood provided movies.

Even then the movie produces have let the net down for the first releases of HD-DVD's simply because there are too many HD capable displays in the Market place that dont have HDMI/HDCP that to impose full HDCP protection would stump market growth at the early stages.

Cyril

lchiu7

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#38628 15-Jun-2006 13:06

cyril7:

Also my understanding from the reviews that the first HD-DVD players from Toshiba in the US don't implement HDCP or even the ICT so any HD ready set with component inputs will get full resolution.

It is my understanding that the players do implement HDCP, but its the current release of HD-DVD discs that instruct the players to request secure code transfers, dont exist.

The situation is no different for Sky, HDCP is optional, if the material being transported does not require the DVD or DVB device to impose HDCP security then it is not required. The only material that to my knowledge that requires HDCP protection is that material that is under the anal copyright protection of major US Movie producers, HDCP protection currently is not applied to normal HD broadcast material in the US (ie your everday HD primetime viewing by the networks) only Hollywood provided movies.

Even then the movie produces have let the net down for the first releases of HD-DVD's simply because there are too many HD capable displays in the Market place that dont have HDMI/HDCP that to impose full HDCP protection would stump market growth at the early stages.

Cyril

Just to correct a statement I made. No idea if the HD-DVD or BluRay players enforce HDCP but they do enforce ICT. But the ICT switch is on the disc, not in the player and up to the content provider. As I noted in an earlier post, it appears that most content providers will put a stay on implementing the ICT until possibly 2010 to allow folks to migrate to sets with HDMI with HDCP. This is unless of course, they start seeing umpteen pirate copies of their movies out there in pristeen HD!

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cyril7

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#38859 18-Jun-2006 09:12

Just found this link http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1608/Editorial-The-Secret-HDMI-Pact/p1/ that I think will explain why bSkyb are not using ICT on their HD transmissions at this point, and my guess is that SkyNZ will follow suit for the forseable future until the world population of HDMI sporting HD displays is of reasonable numbers.

I guess SkyNZ's announcement is just a wakeup to the retailers, sort your act out or your customers may not at sometime in the future get the full HD picture. For most folk who have in the last 2-3years bought a HD capable display sans HDMI/HDCP, well I guess that you are safe for now till around 2012 by which time the unit will need replacing anyway.

Just to re clarify, the HD box's that bSkyb are rolling out in the UK right now have both HDMI/HDCP ports and Analog component outputs that output full 1080i/720p pictures without downgrading (no ICT imposed by bSkyb and content providers), my guess is that SkyNZ will follow the same product rollout as bSkb (its sibling) in the manner that it has in the past.

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Frankei

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#39030 19-Jun-2006 21:46

I think that you will find that most LCDs and Plasmas sold are HDCP compliant now

Out of the major manufacturers Sony's 'S' series is about the only one
Which is what you get when you cheap out and buy the entry level model, its like buying a XR6 Ford Falcon and complaining that the XR6T has a turbo but your base model does not
I'm not saying that the 'S' series are bad, really its good but overhyped and better TVs can be had for less for example the Panasonic 32LX500 altho now in very short supply is still one of the best 32" LCDs you can get. The new 32LX60 sucks the chode compared

Even my Sharp Aquos LC32GA4X, altho lacking HDMI has HDCP compliant DVI-I so I'm set

As for

Mr
Russell stopped short of warning consumers to put off buying new
television sets, but said they should get written assurance from
retailers that the sets were future-proof.

Good luck suckers!

Really this isnt as much a problem as people make it out to be unless you bought the TV two years ago in which case its not the manufacturers or the retailers fault but rather Sky's, not that they may have much say on this matter themselves

TVs were and are sold as HD Compatible which means that its probably an ED panel but will accept HD but scale it down; or HD Ready which means that its most likely an HD panel, will accept and display a HD signal either over DVI, HDMI or Component which is fair enough, it can and will display a HD picture; however the HDCP is a different story all together

I do beleive that people need to be educated on what everything means, teach them the difference between the truth and a myth
You would be surprised how many people ask me how often a Plasma TV needs to be regassed because their electrician said that his Sky installer said to get LCD because you need to regas a Plasma every 2-3 years

Also speaking of educating a lot of retailers should be shot for what they tell customers! I work in a retail environment and when people come in from Harvey Norman, Noels, Bonds etc etc they are fed complete and uder bs more times than not, they arent all bad but hardly any of them are any good

You will find that most assistants are driven by incentives provided by suppliers, for example Panasonic offered $50 for every 42PV500 sold and $100 for every 50PV500 sold (gas or liquor vouchers), Sony also offered $50 in either gas or liquor vouchers for every LCD RearPro sold
So you will often find that the assistant will sell whatever is more benefitial to him rather than what will meet the customers needs

Speaking of HD, lets move onto 1080p... does anything actually output it? Hardly. PS3 and possibly Blu-Ray but HD-DVD and X360 does not; nor does HDTV and if it is its compressed to hell and back
So really whats the point of having a mega high resolution if the picture is compressed? Rather a lower uncompressed signal ty

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