Spark move to IP-based voice

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Spark move to IP-based voice

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324 posts

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#1767776 20-Apr-2017 10:34

nickb800:

The article on Stuff mentions that "People would also no longer be able to rely on older corded phones working for prolonged periods during a power cut" which has of course lit up the comments section.

Is this because voice will be delivered from cabinets rather than exchanges, which means a shorter duration battery backup and no diesel backup? I would have thought that simply replacing the NEAX with a SIP card solution would be unrelated to the power backup, unless they're planning on scaling down their battery backups at the same time.

That is my take on it. I have seen situations where Chorus plug a small generator into cabinet well, it is a pretty easy process.

I don't think cell sites are much better are they around power and generators?

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#1767777 20-Apr-2017 10:36

atomeara:

nickb800:

The article on Stuff mentions that "People would also no longer be able to rely on older corded phones working for prolonged periods during a power cut" which has of course lit up the comments section.

Is this because voice will be delivered from cabinets rather than exchanges, which means a shorter duration battery backup and no diesel backup? I would have thought that simply replacing the NEAX with a SIP card solution would be unrelated to the power backup, unless they're planning on scaling down their battery backups at the same time.

That is my take on it. I have seen situations where Chorus plug a small generator into cabinet well, it is a pretty easy process.

I don't think cell sites are much better are they around power and generators?

stuff article is rather twisted in this sense, the lack of explaining it being due to backup power supplies causes alot of unneeded confusion.

we are in 2017 though, who does not have

a, A cell phone

b, a backup power supply of some sort for emergency.

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richms

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#1767788 20-Apr-2017 10:59

Makes sense to move it to the cabinets from the exchanges for those who need an analog service, since that means that the derelect old copper between exchange and cabinet can be left to rot insted of patched up everytime it fails.

Being able to power my end of the connection is why UFB will always be better than a cabinet based solution for either phone or internet.

Richard rich.ms

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#1767872 20-Apr-2017 12:53

Yabanize:

What sort of equipment to Vodafone use on their Cable network for PSTN?

Nortel as I recall, almost all beings POTS. It's a real issue as the line cards in the cabinets all date from the mid 90's and there have been situations where the techs have had to repair cards by scavenging from recovered kit etc.

I expect they will continue to give away POTS for the foreseeable, rather than drive migration to VoiP ala UFB, and manage outages as little as possible.

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nickb800

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#1767890 20-Apr-2017 13:25

hio77:

atomeara:

nickb800:

The article on Stuff mentions that "People would also no longer be able to rely on older corded phones working for prolonged periods during a power cut" which has of course lit up the comments section.

Is this because voice will be delivered from cabinets rather than exchanges, which means a shorter duration battery backup and no diesel backup? I would have thought that simply replacing the NEAX with a SIP card solution would be unrelated to the power backup, unless they're planning on scaling down their battery backups at the same time.

That is my take on it. I have seen situations where Chorus plug a small generator into cabinet well, it is a pretty easy process.

I don't think cell sites are much better are they around power and generators?

stuff article is rather twisted in this sense, the lack of explaining it being due to backup power supplies causes alot of unneeded confusion.

we are in 2017 though, who does not have

a, A cell phone

b, a backup power supply of some sort for emergency.

To be fair, a lot of older people wouldn't have both, and many rural people wouldn't have cell coverage.

But yes agree that article is misleading. For example, if you were hurt in an earthquake that caused a power outage and needed to call 111, then you can still do that on your landline, up to say 5-10 hours after the event before the battery backup at your local cabinet runs out. Unless of course there is cable damage, and that will happen regardless of where your voice is delivered from.

D1023319

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#1767967 20-Apr-2017 16:03

The bit I am not understanding from this discussion is whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

I ask as my parents are adamant that they do not want new wires/cables installed on their property in Miramar nor do they want new phones.

Or is this only related with trunk cabling that terminates at the local cabinet

sbiddle

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#1767969 20-Apr-2017 16:06

D1023319:

The bit I am not understanding from this discussion is whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

I ask as my parents are adamant that they do not want new wires/cables installed on their property in Miramar nor do they want new phones.

Or is this only related with trunk cabling that terminates at the local cabinet

The phone will continue to use the existing copper and will function in exactly the same way it does now with the exact same phone. The changes will be totally transparent to them and absolutely nothing will change in the way you use your phone.

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atomeara

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#1767971 20-Apr-2017 16:08

D1023319:

The bit I am not understanding from this discussion is whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

I ask as my parents are adamant that they do not want new wires/cables installed on their property in Miramar nor do they want new phones.

Or is this only related with trunk cabling that terminates at the local cabinet

Correct, copper will run to the local cabinet or exchange and it will be SIP from there (aka Basebank IP)

However unrelated to this Chorus may have the right to totally withdrawal copper services from UFB areas from 2020, this is yet to be decided and even if Chorus are given the right to do this they may not do it right away.

If they get UFB and it is overhead they will replace the copper with fibre. So it will be the same number of wires.

There seems to be a generational mindset about this, my parents and other adults around there age seem to be of a similar mindset and don't understand the world is changing and they can object all they want it is going to happen. It is not practical to continue supporting some of the legacy infrastructure.

ubergeeknz

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#1767973 20-Apr-2017 16:11

D1023319:

whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

They will continue to provide service over copper. BBIP terminates SIP at the exchange/cabinet and connects to the copper there. The service is still delivered to the end customer over the same copper wires as before.

D1023319

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#1767981 20-Apr-2017 16:19

ubergeeknz:

D1023319:

whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

There seems to be a generational mindset about this, my parents and other adults around there age seem to be of a similar mindset and don't understand the world is changing and they can object all they want it is going to happen. It is not practical to continue supporting some of the legacy infrastructure.

thanks for prompt responses to my question.

I agree with generational mindset comment and their refusal to change.
Make PC support a nightmare too dealing with old software!

sbiddle

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#1767985 20-Apr-2017 16:23

It's worth noting there are already significant numbers of people already using the Baseband IP voice solution that Spark are moving to. I'd be surprised if any of these people are even aware of the service they're on as to them it's a normal landline and functions as one.

PolicyGuy

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#1767986 20-Apr-2017 16:24

atomeara:

However unrelated to this Chorus may have the right to totally withdrawal copper services from UFB areas from 2020, this is yet to be decided and even if Chorus are given the right to do this they may not do it right away.

Presumably in that case Chorus will have to remediate the environment: dig up all the buried copper phone lines; pull down all the overhead copper phone lines; remove all the poles that carried only copper phone lines; and transfer ownership (and all liabilities attached to this) of any Chorus poles and ducts that carried both Chorus copper and somebody else's cabling but which Chorus no longer requires.

You can't just leave gradually corroding plastic, paper, heavy(ish) metals, &c. slowly leaching poisons into the environment and empty poles rotting away waiting to fall on a passing motorist.
They way well find out it's cheaper to continue to use and maintain the copper.

[BTW, someone once told me this was the reason Vodafone didn't walk away from their cable network: it was too expensive to rip it all out, so they upgraded to DOCIS 3.1]

atomeara

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Ultimate Geek

#1767992 20-Apr-2017 16:28

PolicyGuy:

atomeara:

However unrelated to this Chorus may have the right to totally withdrawal copper services from UFB areas from 2020, this is yet to be decided and even if Chorus are given the right to do this they may not do it right away.

Presumably in that case Chorus will have to remediate the environment: dig up all the buried copper phone lines; pull down all the overhead copper phone lines; remove all the poles that carried only copper phone lines; and transfer ownership (and all liabilities attached to this) of any Chorus poles and ducts that carried both Chorus copper and somebody else's cabling but which Chorus no longer requires.

You can't just leave gradually corroding plastic, paper, heavy(ish) metals, &c. slowly leaching poisons into the environment and empty poles rotting away waiting to fall on a passing motorist.
They way well find out it's cheaper to continue to use and maintain the copper.

[BTW, someone once told me this was the reason Vodafone didn't walk away from their cable network: it was too expensive to rip it all out, so they upgraded to DOCIS 3.1]

I am pretty sure they will walk away from most of it, I suspect the poles and aerial wires will need to come down as they will become a health and safety issue but I highly doubt they will remove much from in the ground.

There are plenty of old pipes and cables all over the place left in the ground from the last 150 years. Including a few old cable TV networks around parts of Auckland

old3eyes

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#1768001 20-Apr-2017 16:34

atomeara:

PolicyGuy:

atomeara:

However unrelated to this Chorus may have the right to totally withdrawal copper services from UFB areas from 2020, this is yet to be decided and even if Chorus are given the right to do this they may not do it right away.

Presumably in that case Chorus will have to remediate the environment: dig up all the buried copper phone lines; pull down all the overhead copper phone lines; remove all the poles that carried only copper phone lines; and transfer ownership (and all liabilities attached to this) of any Chorus poles and ducts that carried both Chorus copper and somebody else's cabling but which Chorus no longer requires.

You can't just leave gradually corroding plastic, paper, heavy(ish) metals, &c. slowly leaching poisons into the environment and empty poles rotting away waiting to fall on a passing motorist.
They way well find out it's cheaper to continue to use and maintain the copper.

[BTW, someone once told me this was the reason Vodafone didn't walk away from their cable network: it was too expensive to rip it all out, so they upgraded to DOCIS 3.1]

I am pretty sure they will walk away from most of it, I suspect the poles and aerial wires will need to come down as they will become a health and safety issue but I highly doubt they will remove much from in the ground.

There are plenty of old pipes and cables all over the place left in the ground from the last 150 years. Including a few old cable TV networks around parts of Auckland

From memory most of the poles in Auckland with phone wires on them belong to the power companies..

Regards,

Old3eyes

DarkShadow

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#1768070 20-Apr-2017 18:56

sbiddle:

D1023319:

The bit I am not understanding from this discussion is whether Spark will continue to use the existing copper wire from the street into the house or will this need to be replaced with a fibre connection?

I ask as my parents are adamant that they do not want new wires/cables installed on their property in Miramar nor do they want new phones.

Or is this only related with trunk cabling that terminates at the local cabinet

The phone will continue to use the existing copper and will function in exactly the same way it does now with the exact same phone. The changes will be totally transparent to them and absolutely nothing will change in the way you use your phone.

That is, if your phone is a touch-tone phone. If your parents are still using one of those old-school rotary dial phones, they'll need a new one.

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