Telecom Wholesale deploying VDSL2

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Telecom Wholesale deploying VDSL2

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#194083 4-Feb-2009 18:34

djrm: Its not just rural though, even in Auckland. Pt Chev had to petition to have their exchanges upgraded sooner, initially they had a year of 2011. There are still chunks of Auckland without fast bb.

So have you any solutions?

Hmmm. Get a company to take care of the loop and separate wholesale, voice, ISP.

Oh, wait. Done. Now what about giving some "incentive" (either in form of tax breaks, or in forms of coercive arguments such as "only get to install equipment if you add $[xxx] to a fund to expand the network" or "only get to install equipment if you deploy one in a poor area for every five in a rich area - straight away, not conditional to results or waiting ten years"?

Do you think it's fair to ask for the other telcos, some making millions of dollars in profit, to contribute to the community? Or do you think only Telecom has to do it?

scottjpalmer

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#194084 4-Feb-2009 18:34

djrm: So have you any solutions?

This technology is coming along in leaps and bounds

djrm

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#194086 4-Feb-2009 18:41

Rats with wings - now why didn't I think of that! Very good LOL.

Freitasm - of course all the Telcos should have to provide, and 1 for every 5 sounds good, and a timeframe incorporated(of course this would be quicker if they didn't keep on sacking staff!)

Screeb

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#194091 4-Feb-2009 19:16

I may be getting a bit hypocritical here, but I think we really need to stop focusing on what ISPs are and aren't doing as a fault of the ISPs, but rather a failure of the system. As long as the free market is milling away, and there is no abuse of monopoly positions, any long term poor "performance" points to a problem with regulation. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - broadband needs to be treated more like a utility, and thus the physical layer should be heavily regulated by the government, both state and local. National's FTTH strategy is a good step in this direction.

[begin flamewar round 8501232615

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freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
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#194093 4-Feb-2009 19:18

I don't think a lot of people will disagree with that...

Regs

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#194147 4-Feb-2009 23:16

djrm: Its not just rural though, even in Auckland. Pt Chev had to petition to have their exchanges upgraded sooner, initially they had a year of 2011. There are still chunks of Auckland without fast bb.

So have you any solutions?

The problem with Pt Chev is that it was all serviced from the Mt Albert exchange. Perfectly fine for voice, but useless for DSL as the cable runs were too long.

To get decent broadband Telecom had to "cabinetise" the suburb (a strategy that vodafone and orcon immediately grumbled about as being anticompetitive, by the way).

This cabnetisation process was also subject to the Resource Management Act (RMA) and it wouldnt surprise me if it was solely because of the RMA that the original 2011 date was proposed. I also heard rumors that the RMA process for Pt Chev cost more than Telecom were ever going to recover in revenue from the suburb.

Early last year that there were some proposed exemptions of telco cabinets from the RMA process, and Sue Kedglely (Greens MP) was vehemently opposed to it. I can't recall if the exemptions were granted.

So deducing from this you can add Vodafone, Orcon, the Green Party and the RMA into the column listing reasons why your broadband isnt cheaper :)

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Regs

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#194149 4-Feb-2009 23:23

Regs:
Its been damn hard to buy stuff off telstraclear over the years as no one seems to want to sell you any of the products they create!

forgive me for quoting myself but I have a related question which is also surprisingly close to being on topic for the thread:

Has anyone managed to purchase a VDSL connection from TelstraClear? When I called them after their press release ( http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=7962 ) I was told that it was only up in running in one place so far, and my client was nowhere near that place.

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Regs

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Snowflake

#194151 4-Feb-2009 23:35

and here is the article link which suggests that with the currently proposed sub-loop-unbundling they wont even recover their ROI from laying the fibre to the cabinets:

http://www.nzx.com/news/markets/4745390

The commission has proposed an average price of $14.68 per customer ($11.89 urban, $22.14 non-urban) for rivals to place broadband equipment in Telecom's 3600 roadside cabinets on the network, called sub-loop unbundling

Telecom's network unit Chorus said the prices were so low it wouldn't be able to recover the costs of its fibre investment

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djrm

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#194203 5-Feb-2009 09:42

So National need to concentrate on the network rather than broadband itslef. SOunds like they should pump money in for the fibre, and highlight areas of poor connectivity.

Doctor

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#194334 5-Feb-2009 18:52

Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I should come here more often really :)
To me VDSL2 is one of those technologys that sounds great in theory, and looks great in marketing but I can't help but take a cynical viewpoint of its deployment.

Not so much the timeframe it takes to upgrade exchanges/cabinets to VDSL2 (good things take time, etc) but can't help but think that uplink given for those cabinets will not be large enough to accomodate VDSL speeds. So people will be connecting to their exchange at 50mbps but from there they may only get 10.

Now I'd love to be wrong but until then i'm taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" stance

DjShadow

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#194336 5-Feb-2009 19:06

excuse me if this question has already been asked but its basic, questions were asked when ADSL first came out I think if the quality of the cooper network was good enough to support high speed internet (back then 8mb), now we're talking 50mb should the same question be asked? or has enough money been poured into the network in the past 10 years for us to expect good qual VDSL2 connections?

Regs

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#194377 5-Feb-2009 22:09

Doctor: Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I should come here more often really :)
To me VDSL2 is one of those technologys that sounds great in theory, and looks great in marketing but I can't help but take a cynical viewpoint of its deployment.

Not so much the timeframe it takes to upgrade exchanges/cabinets to VDSL2 (good things take time, etc) but can't help but think that uplink given for those cabinets will not be large enough to accomodate VDSL speeds. So people will be connecting to their exchange at 50mbps but from there they may only get 10.

Now I'd love to be wrong but until then i'm taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" stance

if they can deliver some 300+ gigabits/s several hundreds of kms over six optical fibers on the southern cross cable (http://www.southerncrosscables.com/public/Network/default.cfm) surely they can find a way to deliver enough backhaul to each cabinet for up to 100Mbps per subscriber. I'm not sure how many fibres are being laid to each cabinet but even if there was only one it could be made to provide some pretty large throughput.

And if you think its pointless having 50mbps connections back to the ISP when the international bandwidth is going to be a chokepoint you would be wrong. There is quite a bit of local caching of content now - e.g. the apple movie traliers, microsoft downloads - that several operations would definately receive a speed boost. Not to mention what it will do to speed up access to local content like linux mirrors and nearby p2p peers.

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pistolpower

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#194490 6-Feb-2009 16:58

When Telecom has finished rolling out FTTN the only copper that will be used is that between the node and your house. Everything after the node is all backed by fibre. And the bottleneck if any in new zealand will happend on the copper part of the network or the dslams if they used bad dslams. The bottleneck in new zealand will not be over their fast fibre network. The VDSL2 DSLAMS should handle VDSL2 based traffic and if they don't then that is telecoms fault for buying a bad product, the fibre will definitly handle it. Theirfore the only possible bandwidth shortage in new zealand would be over the copper network.

The government should set maximum price caps for telecom wholesale selling national bandwidth/or charging GB ussage to isps. The government should then put maximum price caps on how much retail isps can charge for national data usage to their customers. They could set the limit at like $0.10 GB (national) as their is no bandwidth shortage nationally.

The government should then pass regulation stating that national bandwidth should not be shaped and traffic managed at the isp level (wholesale and retail) for residential customers. And that they have to have a certain ammount of bandwidth nationally (a percentage of each customers synch rate or similar).

Ragnor

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#194624 7-Feb-2009 12:52

Hey remember when telecomunications in NZ was run by the government and heavily regulated.. I believe the waiting time to get a simple POTS phone line connected was 6 months+.

Screeb

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#194686 7-Feb-2009 22:01

Ragnor: Hey remember when telecomunications in NZ was run by the government and heavily regulated.. I believe the waiting time to get a simple POTS phone line connected was 6 months+.

Hey remember that was more than two decades ago and most people had a phone line already.

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