IPv6 = Slow

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#639350 11-Jun-2012 22:16

Rubicon: From my understanding, Geekzone has an IPv6 tunnel provided by Hurricane Electric, served from a PoP located in Singapore. This would be HE's geographically closest PoP to NZ. I'm making this assumption based on the source address of the return IPv4 leg of a 6to4 connection (216.218.221.42, tserv1.sin1.he.net).

In my case (Wellington, ISP TelstraClear), an IPv6 connection to geekzone.co.nz takes the following route:
1.|-- 2002:xxxx:xxxx:1::1
2.|-- 2002:cb62:2af0::
3.|-- xe-0-0-0-916.xcore1.telstraclear.net
4.|-- ???
5.|-- i-0-0-4-1.tlot-core01.bx.telstraglobal.net
6.|-- lapeer-equinix.net.reach.com
7.|-- 10gigabitethernet1-3.core1.lax1.he.net
8.|-- 10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.hkg1.he.net
9.|-- 10gigabitethernet1-2.core1.sin1.he.net
10.|-- 2002:d8da:dd2a::1
11.|-- 2001:470:35:4d4::2

The fact that my packets cross the Pacific Ocean twice on their journey to Singapore is not the fault of Geekzone. It's most likely due to TelstraClear routing any traffic to Hurricane Electric via their Los Angeles PoP. This is probably as a default route through TelstraClear's upstream provider, Reach. A similar scenario would apply for others who see their traffic going via the west coast of the USA. Most ISPs should be able to implement a quicker (but not necessarily cheaper) route via Australia if they had reason to.

In general, if connections show strange or inefficient routing, your ISP would be the first port of call for fixing the problem.

For the record, I am in favour of Geekzone keeping the AAAA record for geekzone.co.nz active.

Alot of assumptions there, LAX is one of HE's biggest handover point's and is a natural selection given it's pretty much the handover point for southern cross, Getting L2 transit into SIN means SCC to SYD and then another link from AU to SIN from another cable over there, The same thing occurs(ed) with a couple of transit operators in NZ when getting to SIN for a while aswell - Went via LA

Tracing route to sea.battle.net [202.9.66.38]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

5   171 ms   160 ms   160 ms te4-4.mpd01.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.84.29]

6   160 ms   160 ms   160 ms i-1-3-peer.eqla01.pr.reach.com [134.159.63.197]

7   130 ms   130 ms   129 ms i-0-0-0-0.tlot-core01.bi.reach.com [202.84.251.193]

8   292 ms   291 ms   291 ms i-3-3-2.tmh-core04.bx.reach.com [202.84.249.81]

9   398 ms   397 ms   411 ms i-6-1.6ntp-core01.bx.reach.com [202.84.143.165]

10   403 ms   401 ms   402 ms i-0-1-0-1.6ntp01.bi.reach.com [202.84.180.142]

11   390 ms   390 ms   397 ms unknown.net.reach.com [202.126.173.182]

12   421 ms   421 ms   422 ms 27.111.222.65

13   390 ms   400 ms   398 ms 27.111.222.82

14     *        *        *     Request timed out.

15    *        *     ^C

It's changed for some recently with l2 pipe buys from pacnet but was just they way NZ got to SIN for a long time.

If GZ is to keep the quad a then atleast move the tunnel endpoint to LAX so we get stuck with 130-160ms rather than 500+ but at the end of the day why degrade the experience at all? Nag the DC for v6 and turn it off until they give it to you - Everyone's happy including the guys who will get the calls wanting to know why some sites are slow, Nobody coming here is v6 only yet

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#639360 11-Jun-2012 22:44

sbaird:

That's rather sad, come on people play with IPv6 its fun and it works!

Have had a bit of a play but until my ISP provides support it really is just degrading the internet experience.

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Zeon

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#639362 11-Jun-2012 22:47

Nety:
sbaird:

That's rather sad, come on people play with IPv6 its fun and it works!

Have had a bit of a play but until my ISP provides support it really is just degrading the internet experience.

The thing is IPv4 exhaustion is a problem NOW. For example our ISP Orcon have started asking us for some space back as apparently they are running the low hundreds of free IPv4s (not sure how true that is). This is the primary reason we are switching to IPv6 TBH.

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Noodles

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#640062 13-Jun-2012 10:34

I agree with switching to sixxs and the Wellington POP if you can. I have an account with plenty of credits and can throw an endpoint/subnet your way if you'd like.

deadlyllama

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#640102 13-Jun-2012 11:14

freitasm: I actually pay a lot of attention to data we collect. Our audience is 45% New Zealand, and of those 75% is in Auckland.

We only have a very very small IPv6 audience - under 0.5%.

I tried to get a local POP, ended up nowhere. I gave an option to those 0.5% by having a pop. If not satisfied I am happy to just removed the AAAA addresses and leave at it.

My advice: dump the AAAA. If you're running a public website with reasonable traffic, don't turn on IPv6 if it will make the experience worse for your viewers. In this case, it obviously does. This hurts IPv6 adoption by reinforcing that "IPv6 is slow and worse than IPv4, wed better turn it off". Just like how people who don't know what they're doing block all ICMP and break PMTU discovery.

Noodles

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#640113 13-Jun-2012 11:22

Another option would be to run the site through something like Cloudflare, which does ipv6 as well as optimize images etc.

freitasm

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#640116 13-Jun-2012 11:25

Noodles: Another option would be to run the site through something like Cloudflare, which does ipv6 as well as optimize images etc.

We already have all the images, CSS, scripts optimized by running Riverbed Aptimizer in our own servers.

Also Cloudflare would add latency to ALL New Zealand users because they don't have a local PoP.

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#640130 13-Jun-2012 11:40

Happy to provide some native if you'd like some DC space :)

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#640131 13-Jun-2012 11:41

Thanks for the offer. We currently have a very good deal with Datacom - except for the lack of native IPv6 everything else is pretty good.

Noodles

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#640140 13-Jun-2012 11:49

That's true and I see 132ms latency to the cloudflare POP vs 7ms to the geekzone.co.nz server. It seems though your CDN (hosted through MaxCDN/Net DNA) doesn't have a local POP either and the latency to the Cloudflare POP is quicker than the MaxCDN one (132ms vs 164ms).

freitasm

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#640141 13-Jun-2012 11:51

The thing is that all the content through the CDN are highly cacheable (after going through Aptimizer). This means you should really get impacted on the first request for these resources. After this it should all be either at your ISP's proxy cache or your browser cache.

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#640143 13-Jun-2012 11:52

Actually, wait an hour or so and try the CDN again ;)

Beccara

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#640722 14-Jun-2012 13:56

I'm sure there will be a willing ISP out there able to offer you a 6to4 tunnel that is NZ based until DataCom decide v6 is something they should think about

Zeon

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#640784 14-Jun-2012 15:08

Orcon have now dropped their IPv6 service so back to normal speeds on IPv4. LOL. Pretty annoying after I have converted 70% of our network to IPv6!!! grrrr

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Beccara

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#640789 14-Jun-2012 15:19

Ouch! Thats a shame but this really is a lesson that website operators can't see v6 as a toy anymore. Could you have blackholed GZ IPv6 route to return dst net unreachable in the meantime so v6 could have stayed on and GZ would have fallen back to v4 quickly?

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