Are we ready for "Unlimited" mobile traffic?

Forums › New Zealand Mobile and Wireless › Are we ready for "Unlimited" mobile traffic?

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PaulZA

314 posts

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#1297920 4-May-2015 20:50

johnr: If this was limited to 2G & 3G only it all comes back to channel capacity, 2G has time slots and 3G has channel elements and these are not unlimited, The end users experience would decline greatly

Then it would come down to a fair use policy..

I can understand why unlimited 3g/4g is unsustainable, all the torrents will probably come close to crashing the whole Cellular network, not to mention the data costs.

I doubt that browsing, and Unlimited Facebook access, will severely impact on the network overall, and Steve brought it up, if not done correctly it could essentially lose the carriers money, as people will deliberately run their phones into the ground, just for free data access. I say, fix it, and remedy it by adding it as a monthly addon, whereas if people run out of credit essentially it's already paid for. As the ones who would usually utilize the service, are the low end consumers anyway those who know what they are doing, and need faster internet ie the business people etc, already have contracts so it's not needed..

Would it not be possible to balance the load, where as if the cell site is too congested, the 2g data is further regulated, although in theory it seems plausible, costs may seem too high, users can't really complain, as just stick it in the Ts and Cs..

If only mobile carriers had a separate frequency set aside for Data, and Voice, like ADSL is...

What do you guys think?

surfisup1000

5288 posts

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#1297958 4-May-2015 22:27

I cannot see unlimited 3g/4g happening at a cost friendly level. Radio frequencies are a scarce resource and making data free would simply overload the available capacity.

Pricing is a tool that wireless providers can use to to help manage this scarce resource (and make a profit too of course).

nakedmolerat

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#1297965 4-May-2015 22:58

johnr:
nakedmolerat: Back in 2007 - vodafone NZ has unlimited mobile data.

That was before we cut over to Surepay RTB and it was more like 2001 to 2005 not 2007

No, it was definitely in 2007. I was in Wellington at that time.

I moved to Wellington circa 2007

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1297974 4-May-2015 23:31

PaulZA:
johnr: If this was limited to 2G & 3G only it all comes back to channel capacity, 2G has time slots and 3G has channel elements and these are not unlimited, The end users experience would decline greatly
Then it would come down to a fair use policy..

I can understand why unlimited 3g/4g is unsustainable, all the torrents will probably come close to crashing the whole Cellular network, not to mention the data costs. I doubt that browsing, and Unlimited Facebook access, will severely impact on the network overall, and Steve brought it up, if not done correctly it could essentially lose the carriers money, as people will deliberately run their phones into the ground, just for free data access. I say, fix it, and remedy it by adding it as a monthly addon, whereas if people run out of credit essentially it's already paid for. As the ones who would usually utilize the service, are the low end consumers anyway those who know what they are doing, and need faster internet ie the business people etc, already have contracts so it's not needed..

Would it not be possible to balance the load, where as if the cell site is too congested, the 2g data is further regulated, although in theory it seems plausible, costs may seem too high, users can't really complain, as just stick it in the Ts and Cs..

If only mobile carriers had a separate frequency set aside for Data, and Voice, like ADSL is... What do you guys think?

The problem is that there are alot of mostly embedded devices such as GPS tracking units and smart power meters. (And probably mobile EFTPOS as well) That use 2G data. They don't need much bandwidth / data. But still need reliable connections.

sbiddle

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#1298001 5-May-2015 07:08

kiwikiwi:
tdgeek:
kiwikiwi: I could cope with a 128.8KBps unlimited 3G service. It would make news websites and forums like this for example do-able. I also don't think that's much to ask for. Especially considering what full speed 3G is capable of.

Back in the day website pages were circa 60k, maybe a bit more, dialup was 53k max, fine.

Now, webpages are often 1MB. Dialup at 53k is hopeless, so 128k would be half hopeless.

I think the answer is increasing the GB of a mobile plan, thats been happening at pace for a while now, get a bigger plan is my answer.

Maybe my needs are different. I can happily wait a bit with low speed and not be tied to a cap ;)

It's very obvious you've never used a mobile network in the US. It's just so incredibly frustrating with such poor performance.

kiwikiwi

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1298034 5-May-2015 07:47

sbiddle:
kiwikiwi:
tdgeek:
kiwikiwi: I could cope with a 128.8KBps unlimited 3G service. It would make news websites and forums like this for example do-able. I also don't think that's much to ask for. Especially considering what full speed 3G is capable of.

Back in the day website pages were circa 60k, maybe a bit more, dialup was 53k max, fine.

Now, webpages are often 1MB. Dialup at 53k is hopeless, so 128k would be half hopeless.

I think the answer is increasing the GB of a mobile plan, thats been happening at pace for a while now, get a bigger plan is my answer.

Maybe my needs are different. I can happily wait a bit with low speed and not be tied to a cap ;)

It's very obvious you've never used a mobile network in the US. It's just so incredibly frustrating with such poor performance.

I have. I was on AT&T all of 2010 for a good 2 weeks. It was pretty fast and satisfying. Of course I only checked my emails and facebook and uploaded a few photos. I didn't mind waiting at all and it was fine.

You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

sbiddle

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#1298042 5-May-2015 08:09

kiwikiwi:

I have. I was on AT&T all of 2010 for a good 2 weeks. It was pretty fast and satisfying. Of course I only checked my emails and facebook and uploaded a few photos. I didn't mind waiting at all and it was fine.

2010 is a long time ago. Your experience is clearly quite different to mine where multiple visits to the US each year are met with constant problems with poor or non existent data throughput and fairly regular issues with coverage and capacity, regardless of the network. I'd far prefer a NZ network any day - and the pricing of our plans is now far better value than many in the US anyway.

I spend hours talking to plenty of mobile and MTM guys at a conference last year who simply drool when you tell them that getting 200Mbps + on a real world live cat6 network in NZ (such as Vodafone) is an every day occurrence. These guys were getting excited when they could get 5Mbps on a speedtest and in many big cities suffered from terrible QoE.

Yes not all US networks are bad everywhere, but NZers just don't realise how vastly superior in general their mobile networks are, and I don't want my QoE experience (which is far more important than speed anyway) hampered by networks overloaded because people want unlimited data.

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mckenndk

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#1298055 5-May-2015 09:02

Spark would have a problem falling back to 2G.
In rural areas there may be issues where there is a single tower covering a wider area and if its used for RBI they won't want any slow speeds (places that have popped up here often are Ohakune and Martinborough).
4G would help with getting requests though quicker though and with anything there is usually a mad rush at the start and then calms down once it becomes the norm.

I miss my T-Mobile UK plan, it had unlimited data with a cap of some sort ever month but I never reached it.
The last time I was there I paid 20 pounds for 6 months of mobile data and did not reach the cap and that was including downloading podcasts, maps, apps etc.
Don't ever remember having performance issues, but if you ran out of coverage there was usually plenty of free wifi around.

If you ever tried to tether to the device you would get a speed worse than dialup.
I can't find the T&C for T-Mobile as since EE took over the site is a mess but Three UK has the following T&C and with there plan in certain countries (including NZ) they can roam at no extra cost and still use their data.

What is all-you-can-eat data?

All-you-can-eat data is part of some of our latest Pay Monthly and SIM plans, as well as some older Pay Monthly plans like the Ultimate Internet Plan and The One Plan. It's also available with our All in One 15 and All in One 25 Add-ons on Pay As You Go and some Talk and Text plans. It gives you all the internet use you need when you're in the UK and up to 25GB of data for internet use when you’re in a Feel At Home destination.

With all-you-can-eat data you can use as much data as you want. This means you can use your smartphone as you like - so you can download apps, browse the web, look at maps and check your emails as often as you like without worrying about going over a data allowance.

Note:

TrafficSense™ applies to all our plans. Find out how we use TrafficSense™ to protect your experience.
All-you-can-eat data can only be used abroad when you’re in a Feel At Home destination, and is limited to 25GB of data use. If you’re on a plan which allows Personal Hotspot use, this isn't permitted in a Feel At Home destination. Find out more about Feel At Home.
If you use data abroad, and you’re not in a Feel At Home destination, or if you're in a Feel At Home destination and have used your data allowance, you’ll be charged for it in accordance with the relevant roaming rates. Find out more about data roaming costs.
All our current plans include a Personal Hotspot allowance, but it's not included in your all-you-can-eat data allowance. Find out more about Personal Hotspot.
All you can eat data gives you worry free internet use. Even if you used your phone for every minute of every day you could only use, subject to TrafficSense™, around 1000GB each month. We may use this cap to identify inappropriate use of the service, such as commercial use, which isn't permitted under our terms and conditions.

deadlyllama

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#1298060 5-May-2015 09:12

When T-Mobile offers you "2G speeds" it's still over whatever network your cellphone connects to -- 2G, 3G, or 4G -- they just throttle you somewhere else in the network. So unlimited "2G" is actually just ratelimited 3G/4G most of the time, not something that forces you onto an old, overloaded 2G network.

raytaylor

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#1301660 11-May-2015 00:19

In the USA, they are moving away from unlimited plans now - and the MNVO's that are still selling them are constantly reducing the coverage areas.

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MikeB4

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#1301674 11-May-2015 07:54

I like the Spark alternative, WiFi hotspots and currently 1GB daily data. Doesn't kill the Cellular network and provides data flexibility.

Regs

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Snowflake

#1302027 11-May-2015 15:35

grant_k:
deadlyllama: The "free 2G speeds" thing is I think what T-Mobile does in the USA. It throttles you to 128Kbps according to https://support.t-mobile.com/message/412563

My son is staying with us at present, and he is connected via T-Mobile in the USA and their 'Unlimited' 128kbps roaming service. It's not only the Speed that is lousy, but also the Lag which is around 700ms according to Speedtest. Most times, speedtests don't even complete, and with so much lag, the service is not what you'd call responsive.

For basic web browsing, and a bit of email, it's not too bad, but 'Unlimited' is a bit of a joke really. There are various 'Fair Use' clauses in the T&Cs but the kicker is that they've disabled tethering. This is definitely the case on an iPhone, and also on a Windows phone, but I don't know if there is a workaround for Android.

Not being able to tether to a laptop greatly limits the usefulness of the 'Unlimited' data, which is actually pretty much limited in all respects except the sheer number of MB you could consume if you were very determined.

I struggle to use my laptop with a 512kbps capped internet at the hotels I stay at. I'd hate to see what 128kbps feels like :S

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grant_k

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#1302069 11-May-2015 16:20

Regs:
grant_k:
deadlyllama: The "free 2G speeds" thing is I think what T-Mobile does in the USA. It throttles you to 128Kbps according to https://support.t-mobile.com/message/412563

My son is staying with us at present, and he is connected via T-Mobile in the USA and their 'Unlimited' 128kbps roaming service. It's not only the Speed that is lousy, but also the Lag which is around 700ms according to Speedtest. Most times, speedtests don't even complete, and with so much lag, the service is not what you'd call responsive.

For basic web browsing, and a bit of email, it's not too bad, but 'Unlimited' is a bit of a joke really. There are various 'Fair Use' clauses in the T&Cs but the kicker is that they've disabled tethering. This is definitely the case on an iPhone, and also on a Windows phone, but I don't know if there is a workaround for Android.

Not being able to tether to a laptop greatly limits the usefulness of the 'Unlimited' data, which is actually pretty much limited in all respects except the sheer number of MB you could consume if you were very determined.

I struggle to use my laptop with a 512kbps capped internet at the hotels I stay at. I'd hate to see what 128kbps feels like :S

Among other things, it means that the 'Here Maps' app is not terribly useful when out driving. Maps are very slow to load if you haven't downloaded them first. With a lag time of 700ms, it's as though the data packets are going through the nearest Vodafone cellsite, back to the USA where the speed is throttled to 128kbps and then back to NZ again, via the cellsite to the phone. What a lot of effort and expense for T-Mobile to go to, all in order to restrict the connection speed according to the T&Cs for their 'Unlimited' plan.

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