Wanting a virtual cell phone for iOS and desktop, looking at 2Talk, but SMS costs and functionality unclear.

Forums › VoIP › Wanting a virtual cell phone for iOS and desktop, looking at 2Talk, but SMS costs and functionality unclear.

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386 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1310190 22-May-2015 21:44

Yep, I have emailed 2Talk support back and (perhaps futilely, but it's the principle) demanded my money back paid so far in credit to test it out.

I could live with the terrible config, crap website, and lack of documentation.
I could live with the bugginess and crashes (at least assuming it wouldn't get worse).
I could live with the awful to near nonexistent support.

But I _cannot_ live with SMS messages vanishing into the ether on a random basis (so far as I can tell) with no indication of failure, and I cannot stomach re-creating my address book contacts in 2Talk just have numbers with leading zeros that will work in 2Talk, nor can I face then having two sets of contacts accessible in 2Talk - with only one working (especially bad when you consider the 2Talk app provides no warning it will not work to SMS (or phone) a number without leading zero in the area code, and thus happily takes my money despite the SMS text showing as successfully sent... to nowhere!).

I ask again in case any 2Talk reps are here - have you ever used your own service? If you answer in the affirmative, I have to question your honesty.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

Baboon

386 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1310192 22-May-2015 21:45

P.S. frietasm - I don't wana get in trouble with you again, so let me know if my feelings were expressed too harshly. I'm just amazed a company like this survives.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310193 22-May-2015 21:48

I have never come across another app that needs me to put numbers in without the 0 either. Its always either been with the 0 or 006421xxxx or better +6421xxxxxx. Seems like skype is being non standard, but I have only used it after changing all my contacts to +6421xxxxxx after fixing them from that abortion that was a CDMA network that needed them to be in the contacts wrong.

Richard rich.ms

Baboon

386 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1310194 22-May-2015 21:54

Skype, TextPlus/NextPlus/Heywire/Line/name your international VoIP app all only work without the leading zero, as calls - even at local rates - are made as if they are international. Either apps standardise or are smart enough to add/strip leading zeros. Otherwise they're essentially useless. Any app developer should be aware of this, since any user will quickly encounter it, unless they only ever use locally based VoIP apps that handle numbers as if they're dialed within NZ.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310196 22-May-2015 22:00

Are these apps where you have to dropdown to choose a country as well if you dont have it in the number?

How are you making non voip calls from your conacts? 9xxxxxxx or 21xxxxxxx wont work on any network, its always needed the 0 or the +64 on it.

Richard rich.ms

Baboon

386 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1310204 22-May-2015 22:12

I'm not on a smartphone. If I was I'd face the reverse problem - almost all VoIP apps work only with numbers in international format, and the cellphone's own calling app would only work with local numbers in local area code with leading zero format. There needs to be standardisation across the board, because overall it's just a mess right now.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310205 22-May-2015 22:18

Then you are an edge case expecting things that not many people need. Most people have their contacts on a smartphone (or dumbphone via the sim card) so they can call and SMS people on the phone.

There is a standard, its + countrycode areacode number.

Works for everything I have tried, works when you are roaming and stick a foregn sim in the phone, works when you click to call on skype on a desktop if you are into that, works for a tel: URL on the web.

Richard rich.ms

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Baboon

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Ultimate Geek

#1310213 22-May-2015 23:08

I think you underestimate the number of Skype users and the like. This issue exists with any address book integration - mobile device and desktop.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310215 22-May-2015 23:36

No it doesnt exist. I can click on a link to a +649xxxxxx number and desktop skype is quite happy to place the call if I had any money on it.

Likewise for the skype app on my phone.

I have just tried calls to a couple of contacts on my phone in 2talk connect, skype, and the stock dialer and they all worked fine from my contacts list in the correct format. I had a look at one of the apps you listed but they wanted too much information for me to continue to sign up with.

Richard rich.ms

Baboon

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Ultimate Geek

#1310217 22-May-2015 23:52

richms: +649xxxxxx number

And what format did I say Skype and most other VoIP apps accepts, and which did I say they reject, and vice versa for 2Talk?

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310219 22-May-2015 23:59

Baboon:
And what format did I say Skype and most other VoIP apps accepts, and which did I say they reject, and vice versa for 2Talk?

You said

Baboon:
Another annoyance - Skype and other VoIP apps require the leading zero in area codes to be left off (as they treat all numbers as if they're dialed internationally) for the Address Book app numbers to work with them. But 2Talk will try to dial the number, e.g. 9 123 1231 as a local number and it thus fails. In other words 2Talk's interfacing with Address Book is useless to me, so I'll have to use it's own contacts and input numbers there with the leading zero.

To which I asked if there was a +64 in a dropdown like skype does, and you didnt answer.

I have never seen simply 91231231 as a valid number for any contacts list. It will only work in an app that presents the counry code as a list to choose from and automatically appends it like skype does.

Regardless, a contact list with numbers in the correct international format should work in any app, and it has for both calls to my NZ and US numbers in skype, 2talk connect and the native phone dialer to place the call over the cellular network. I dont see how it could be any other way since that format is about 20 years old like GSM is.

There should be no leading zeros on any phone number in any contacts directory.

Richard rich.ms

Baboon

386 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1310224 23-May-2015 00:33

"But 2Talk will try to dial the number, e.g. 9 123 1231 as a local number and it thus fails." Right. Whereas Skype and every other common non-local VoIP app requires numbers to not have leading zeros for the area code. I'm not sure whether you think I've somehow said the opposite despite you copying and pasting "But 2Talk will try to dial the number, e.g. 9 123 1231 as a local number and it thus fails", or if some other confusion is occurring here.

To be crystal clear (I hope *sighs*):

Skype (as one example of many) will only work to successfully call a NZ number without a leading zero on the area code, e.g. an Auckland number input as '9 123 1231' will work. Whereas '09 123 1231' will _not_ work.

Local calling via local phone systems and the 2Talk app will only work to successfully call a NZ number with a leading zero on the area code, e.g. an Auckland number input as '09 123 1231' will work. Whereas '9 123 1231' will _not_ work. In other words - the reverse of Skype and other common international VoIP apps.

This leads to the all too predictable problem of having incompatible phone numbers for contacts in one's address book if one uses both Skype and 2Talk, or Line and a Vodafone mobile, or any such combination where both draw numbers from the same contact list.

All I'm saying given IME it is very common to have Skype on one's mobile (as I do, though this all began with me mainly wanting to use both Skype and the 2Talk app on an iPod touch I use as my phone handset at home in WiFi range), as well as other user scenarios resulting in the same issue, you'd have thought devs would have realised this is a really stupid mess they've created. But I guess not :-(

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310228 23-May-2015 00:58

Skype has a dropdown to choose the country, which in my case is pre-populated with +1 and below it says united states - If I want to call NZ, I have to either backspace over that and type +64 21 xxxxx , choose new zealand to get the +64 and type the rest of the number, or paste the number in with the standard +6421xxxxxx format, or choose it from a contact with a standard +6421xxxxxx format on it. It is made to work with international formatted numbers for people without a local dialing plan as its not replacing a local phone line. It is operating as intended.

It will add the 1 for me if I type a US number without the leading +1, but I assume that is because when I set the account up I chose united states. Perhaps if you have it set to NZ, then it will automatically add the +64 on, but that is just it attempting to correct you entering an incomplete number.

2talk is an analog line replacement, they have a dialing plan on it that suits people connecting with analog phones that do not have a + on them, people in NZ expect to be able to pick up a phone and dial 09xxxxxxx for auckland or 021xxxxxx for a mobile. It is operating as intented.

There is nothing to fix other than your phone directory entries being incomplete and lacking the country code on them.

Richard rich.ms

Baboon

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Ultimate Geek

#1310231 23-May-2015 01:08

richms: There is nothing to fix other than your phone directory entries being incomplete and lacking the country code on them.

Which destroys compatibility. What is your problem with this? I'm not being rude, though I admit I'm getting a bit tetchy. But I really am interested - why do you object?

'Working as intended' is to my mind a silly reason for such obvious and easily avoidable incompatibility. All one need do is either add in a zero or delete a zero from the area code if it is a problem. Hell - I can write a simple regex expression to do that myself. Why can't app devs???

For that matter - Skype used to in earlier versions years ago - it would automatically strip the leading zero from national area codes in numbers accessed from the Address Book app, when dialing them. Why they got rid of such a useful feature, I will never know - and I've asked several times. But it worked once, and it could so easily work again in any app, damn it.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."

- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)

richms

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#1310232 23-May-2015 01:11

What is it going to break compatibility with? Everything should work with a complete phone number in it?

If they made it strip the 0 out, then they would need to wait to see if people dialed 7 or 8 digits on their analog phones to decide if its going to be a local or a national call. That would cause way more friction and annoyance than people using a sip client which is by far the minority of their customers.

Richard rich.ms

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