Does Microsoft actually get the consumer market?

Forums › Microsoft Windows › Does Microsoft actually get the consumer market?

crackrdbycracku

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#130657 23-Sep-2013 12:44

OK, we all know about the Big Reveal tomorrow out time. I have been following the comment and I really have to wonder if Microsoft actually understands they are trying to sell products to consumers who pay for these things with their own money.

The basic line from from Redmond appears to be 'We learned a lot from the first generation Surface devices, the next generation will incorporate what we have learned'. Dude, that wasn't a prototype; it was a product for sale ... to people who can choose to buy other products with their hard earned ... and did ... remember the $900 million you wrote off? That wasn't a 'win'.

If Microsoft doesn't want to sell to consumers that isn't actually a problem. I'm not going to waste anybody's time listing names but their are plenty of successful corps who just sell to other corps.

Three first generation products: Xbox, iPad and Surface RT.

Two of these products launched into markets which were reasonably open, they had at least one compelling factor and were priced appropriately for the market.

The other was the Surface RT. And by Redmond's own admission the Gen 2 isn't going to revolutionary.

I haven't asked this for a while but; Am I missing something here?

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#901177 23-Sep-2013 12:50

IIRC the original xbox wasn't that much of a success, It was the Xbox 360 that stole the market so I wouldn't write off Microsoft just yet.

crackrdbycracku

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#901184 23-Sep-2013 13:02

True, but the original Xbox was competing only against the PS2, not some fifth generation market defining console with a very entrenched user base or an avalanche of very cheap consoles which do a similar job at a fraction of the price. Yes, the PS2 was a great product and had a lot of games but wasn't as dominant in the space as the iPad is in that space now.

Also, the original Xbox had a trump card; Halo. If you wanted to play Halo you had to buy an Xbox, enough people did.

The first gen Surface RT had ... ?

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Snowflake

#901216 23-Sep-2013 13:38

crackrdbycracku:

The first gen Surface RT had ... ?

Supposedly longer battery life and a lower price point than the Atom/Core chipsets.

Having the full office with outlook on 8.1 is a plus for the lite office worker, but perhaps a little confusing in the consumer space. If they could 'surface' the full office apps as Windows Store Apps instead of via the desktop then that might lessen the confusion. Once Windows Store Apps have really taken off (and the market is growing quite fast) I can see a real market for the "RT" style device. Being able to run the apps on both your home/office desktop, on a slim tablet device, and on a phone, will present an advantage over the ipad/?? combo. Especially if there is seamless transition between each client.

Personally I think that the RT and the Phone 8 should have been the same device but I expect that will be v3, if at all. The biggest things missing from the Surface RT, in my opinion, were 3G/4G connectivity and a drop-and-go docking solution.

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crackrdbycracku

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#901237 23-Sep-2013 14:03

@Regs

Yeah, it also had a kick-stand which now comes in two positions. Even though they said the first time around it was in the perfect position at 22 degrees.

But in all seriousness I agree with a lot of what you say. When I considered buying an RT I thought of it as a tablet that could simple PC functions and some light word processing if the full laptop at home as being used by someone else. I think of the Surface Pro as a good ultra portable PC which is fine but not what I am after.

I work in communications and I would say one the the biggest failures I have seen in recent times was the way the message around the Surface RT was '... but it doesn't run legacy Windows apps' not "... and while it is a table it can run proper Windows Office". This is pretty much unforgivable.

I think the Surface RT could have been a great device, hell if it had launched at the price they are selling it for now we could have over looked the flaws. But I think you sum up the Microsoft failure about perfectly here:

Once Windows Store Apps have really taken off (and the market is growing quite fast) I can see a real market for the "RT" style device.

No, if the Windows Store Apps take off, that isn't a forgone conclusion, and by the time RT style devices have evolved into something consumers will pay for the world will have moved on. The world is already moving on in that Intel has Bay Trail chips ready to go and Asus has compelling devices such as the Asus Transformer Book T100 and the Trio ready to go sell at competitive prices. Strange that MS partners are about the kill the Surface RT but there you go.

The old saying used to be "with Microsoft wait till the 3.0 version when they will have worked out the bugs" in the consumer world of 2013 you get one chance. Windows Phone was good enough on launch and the fight there is still going, Windows RT and Surface RT weren't and the fight is over.

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wasabi2k

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#901249 23-Sep-2013 14:27

Yeah Haswell and the new Atoms are really killing the need for ARM based Windows.

They have some work to do to integrate Phone/Tablet/PC - make that a single experience and you will start winning consumers.

You also need a lower cost Tablet Option - 10 inch tablets cost a LOT. You need a Nexus 7 equivalent to get people to try the damn thing. I was more than willing to risk $350 on my Nexus 7. I would not risk $600+ on a Windows RT Tablet.

Regs

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Snowflake

#901441 23-Sep-2013 20:05

while the bay trail 'atom' chips hold promise, haswell 'core' chips arent going to be that cheap though. I laugh at those people who say the surface pro is expensive, that they want one at the $500 price point but still with the i5 processor in it.

people compare the surface pro to the atom tablets with their $800-$900 price points, but there really isnt a comparison. The pro really needs to be compared to the lenovo helix (>$2000), or the samsung i5 based tablets (>$1800) and then the surface pro price doesn't look near as bad. If you want a 'full performance' machine in a compact form factor, you're going to have to pay for it.

if the ARM chips can have a much lower price point than the ATOM (bay trail) chips - e.g. that sub $500 price point - then there might still be a big future for them. Embedded systems are also still an opportunity for these too (although embedded linux seems to be taking over here). The atom chips still dont get the 'instant on' "killer" feature, to my knowlegde.

NB, acer has a 8" W3 tablet and now toshiba has 8" tablet coming http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696168/toshiba-launches-two-new-windows-8-tablets-click-encore

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TwoSeven

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#901792 24-Sep-2013 11:36

I can remember when one used to be able to buy all of the MS development s/w on a weeks wages (and this was still the case later in the early days of visual studio). Later one could save up for a few months and get an MSDN subscription as well as the full Visual Studio. I doubt these days anyone could afford to buy Visual Studio Ultimate buy itself let alone even think about an MSDN subscription.

It is a shame, because in the early days developers I knew would go home after work and use their own software to do their own innovative stuff and Microsoft made a noise about how all of these APIs were in windows that we used to create s/w solutions that completely left of field.

Without developers creating innovative solutions there are only consumers, and they really just want access to facebook and youtube and to be able to communicate with cousin Edna.

Now instead of Win32 APIs, DirectX and all those lovely technologies, we have Win RT - which is really good at facebook, youtube and sending messages to cousin Edna.

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#901797 24-Sep-2013 11:40

boby55: IIRC the original xbox wasn't that much of a success, It was the Xbox 360 that stole the market so I wouldn't write off Microsoft just yet.

IIRC It wasn't a financial success, in that they barely (or maybe didn't at all) broke even on it.... but in terms of market success it was huge. But I remember it was widely considered to be the better console in terms of graphics and performance, with Halo being a massively successful franchise that boosted it even further.

I know a lot of people that jumped ship from PS to Xbox when it originally came out, and they stayed when 360 came out.

crackrdbycracku

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#901806 24-Sep-2013 11:47

TwoSeven: I can remember when one used to be able to buy all of the MS development s/w on a weeks wages (and this was still the case later in the early days of visual studio). Later one could save up for a few months and get an MSDN subscription as well as the full Visual Studio. I doubt these days anyone could afford to buy Visual Studio Ultimate buy itself let alone even think about an MSDN subscription.

It is a shame, because in the early days developers I knew would go home after work and use their own software to do their own innovative stuff and Microsoft made a noise about how all of these APIs were in windows that we used to create s/w solutions that completely left of field.

Without developers creating innovative solutions there are only consumers, and they really just want access to facebook and youtube and to be able to communicate with cousin Edna.

Now instead of Win32 APIs, DirectX and all those lovely technologies, we have Win RT - which is really good at facebook, youtube and sending messages to cousin Edna.

Who was that guy who chanted; "Developers, Developers, Developers"?

Steve ... something ... No, not the Apple guy... the other one....

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raytaylor

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#902751 25-Sep-2013 23:22

crackrdbycracku: I really have to wonder if Microsoft actually understands they are trying to sell products to consumers who pay for these things with their own money.

Of course they dont - they released windows 8 without my start menu and mucked around with the control panel and made even just connecting to a wireless network difficult. Therefore i didnt buy it.

Just looking at those buttons that arent buttons makes me angry.

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nathan

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#902760 26-Sep-2013 00:01

Curious to know what you find different about the control panel and connecting to wireless networks

TwoSeven

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#902814 26-Sep-2013 07:57

nathan: Curious to know what you find different about the control panel and connecting to wireless networks

I think it is because half of the time it doesn't work. I have found that if there is a permanent wifi network such as a home network, it seems to remember to connect to it every time and mostly works fine.

However, ad-hoc networks (such as those used in tethering) are an absolute nightmare. It doesn't seem to check very often if there are new networks available or even if it is, can it connect. One has to keep toggling the wifi mode on/off to get it to pick up a network and sometimes resort to a reboot in order to get it to connect.

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#902835 26-Sep-2013 08:20

crackrdbycracku: Who was that guy who chanted; "Developers, Developers, Developers"?

Steve ... something ... No, not the Apple guy... the other one....

That was Steve Ballmer. Microsoft CEO.

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raytaylor

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#903419 26-Sep-2013 23:31

nathan: Curious to know what you find different about the control panel and connecting to wireless networks

The ability to edit your wireless network profiles list has completley gone in windows 8. This was the "Manage wireless networks" option in the windows networking centre in vista/7 and xp had a tab on the wifi adapter properties.

Half the stuff has been moved from the control panel, to the sidebar settings on the right hand side of the screen to "simplify". I would have prefered they just left it as it was and made a simple shell for the right hand side of the screen swipey thing.

The Wlan switch on your laptop switches the new Aeroplane Mode on or off, not the wifi card or bluetooth as it used to.

I had an issue the other day with a laptop where the light on the switch would not change from red (off) to blue (on) but it would enable / disable bluetooth as a result of the aeroplane mode being switched on and off. What we actually needed to do was switch on the wifi. The NIC was enabled, but on a vista/7 computer it just needed the wifi card itself being switched back on. Eventually managed to get the network troubleshooter to do it - first time ever that its done anything useful for me.

It makes me sad.

Yes I understand that i am a 25 year old that suffers from old man syndrome and hates anything new but these are genuine concerns for the product direction and future build quality.

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nathan

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#903422 26-Sep-2013 23:36

Appreciate you taking the time to give us the feedback. Passing it on to the right people.

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