Windows 10 uses customers' computers to distribute updates

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348 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1357104 2-Aug-2015 13:14

ubergeeknz:
markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

It's the principle of it, for me. Also no matter how small the update, if your system reseeds it (for want of a better term) 100x or 1000x, or say there are errors and it is re-downloaded infinitely, it will add up.

I don't know, but I'm assuming that it works in a similar manner to bittorrent - that is, you "seed" files but in actual fact because each file is shared in "chunks", that really only means that any "chunks" you've downloaded already are available for sharing to others - so in all probability, with millions of people also sharing the same downloads, you'd almost never seed an entire update yourself...

Having said that, a real plus as an extra, if anyone from Microsoft is reading (LOL), would be to give us visibility and fine grained control over this behaviour - so we can see how many "chunks" each update is made up of, and what size, how much from each that we've seeded, perhaps allow us to seed for a certain time then stop, etc.

There are a LOT of options with this...

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#1357116 2-Aug-2015 13:34

Sideface:
markl: .... Hell, I'm a massive geek and *I* have a data cap!! It's 150GB per month, so it's huge, but there is still a cap. ...

Some people on high-speed connections would consider 150GB to be a busy day's usage.

It's all a matter of perspective.

PS

Until recently I had a 150GB data cap.
Now I'm on unlimited and typically use 300GB per month.

My point is that it is very easy to go through lots of data on a high-speed connection, deliberately or otherwise.

Sideface

mattwnz

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#1357121 2-Aug-2015 13:47

markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

Considering some can be in the many hundreds of MB, and most households would have more than 1 pc, I don't think this is the case. Also some PCs use mobile connections, and some are on rural internet which has very expensive data rates. For something like this, which is like P2P sharing, it should be opt in, not opt out IMO. I wasn't even aware of this until I saw this thread.

nathan

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#1357125 2-Aug-2015 13:51

mattwnz:
markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

Considering some can be in the many hundreds of MB, and most households would have more than 1 pc, I don't think this is the case. Also some PCs use mobile connections, and some are on rural internet which has very expensive data rates. For something like this, which is like P2P sharing, it should be opt in, not opt out IMO. I wasn't even aware of this until I saw this thread.

PCs on mobile connections automatically get set as Metered Connections and WUDO won't kick in.

TwoSeven

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#1357134 2-Aug-2015 14:07

scuwp: People still have data caps? How quaint...

Well, if we take out all of the people that can't afford to pay the price for unlimited internet, all of the people that don't live in a city, all of the people that hardly use the internet and don't need unlimited data, then yes, some people don't have to worry about those things.

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BDAKiwi

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#1357150 2-Aug-2015 14:52

Back to the OP how many people know that Akamai net session does the same thing? It uses small data blocks but it makes things move much faster overall. Sure you're contributing, but without it you'd be waiting until next month for a web page to load. Akamai Net Session greatly improves your online efficiency, but some people are so determined that it's 'stealing' or that it's a data analysis conspiracy that they block it altogether, slowing their access to the web and ultimately costing them more.

Same deal with W10, it's all about spreading the load to keep servers from crashing and giving people the quickest access to data. With Akamai it's measured in kB, but MS is silent it seems on how much data W10 is seeding, which is not cool.
Lol at any complainers that torrent :D

mattwnz

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#1357160 2-Aug-2015 15:10

nathan:
mattwnz:
markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

Considering some can be in the many hundreds of MB, and most households would have more than 1 pc, I don't think this is the case. Also some PCs use mobile connections, and some are on rural internet which has very expensive data rates. For something like this, which is like P2P sharing, it should be opt in, not opt out IMO. I wasn't even aware of this until I saw this thread.

PCs on mobile connections automatically get set as Metered Connections and WUDO won't kick in.

Although does that work if you are tethering a laptop to a mobiles WiFi hotspot, and the mobile is connected to 3G for it's internet.

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nathan

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#1357162 2-Aug-2015 15:19

mattwnz:
nathan:
mattwnz:
markl:
ubergeeknz:]

This is all very well. But most users would not have a *clue* to do this or even that it would be an issue. ISPs should probably brace for a whole lot of customers with overage in the near future.

I understand why Microsoft have done this, it's a smart move and one I've long wanted to see in Enterprise update distribution at least, but not telling people that you will be using their bandwidth to allow other customers to download updates is a bit on the nose.

I disagree. Like I said earlier, I doubt that must Windows updates are large enough over a month to cause caps to be blown. Obviously there are exceptions to that, of course, but I can't see there being a massive deluge of people with this problem ask calling their isp to find out why they've gone over their cap

Considering some can be in the many hundreds of MB, and most households would have more than 1 pc, I don't think this is the case. Also some PCs use mobile connections, and some are on rural internet which has very expensive data rates. For something like this, which is like P2P sharing, it should be opt in, not opt out IMO. I wasn't even aware of this until I saw this thread.

PCs on mobile connections automatically get set as Metered Connections and WUDO won't kick in.

Although does that work if you are tethering a laptop to a mobiles WiFi hotspot, and the mobile is connected to 3G for it's internet.

Yes indeed that still works

nakedmolerat

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#1357196 2-Aug-2015 17:34

Wow, thanks for this thread.

It should be opt in not opt out. Or at least it should be set to local network only as the default.

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#1357198 2-Aug-2015 17:42

nathan:
mattwnz:

Although does that work if you are tethering a laptop to a mobiles WiFi hotspot, and the mobile is connected to 3G for it's internet.

Yes indeed that still works

How on earth would Windows know? Seems a bit far-fetched and prone to inaccuracy, to me.

jamesrt

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#1357206 2-Aug-2015 17:48

ubergeeknz: How on earth would Windows know?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.

scuwp

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#1357228 2-Aug-2015 18:51

scuwp: People still have data caps? How quaint...

Gosh, some GZ'ers have obviously been up all night getting their PC's updated to W10, and desperately need some sleep as their sarcasm radar is definitely faulty. Apologies to those that got their knickers in a twist over my misguided attempt at a bit of light-hearted banter.

Of course I appreciate that many are on limited bandwidth, but equally there is a large chunk of the population that could be on unlimited for the same or negligible price difference whereupon these sort of issues become redundant. dare I say some on older plans may actually find the new options cheaper.

Aaaaanyhowww...Personally I thinks it's pretty savvy of MS to be using local networks, for one of the largest on-line software roll-outs probably in the history of the world this is a logical step, no?

Thanks to the OP for alerting to this, although it has been widely reported in the media, and it is easy to disable for those that need/want to. Another example of something that perhaps should have been "opt-in" rather than "opt-out".

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Dreal

417 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1357272 2-Aug-2015 20:01

Ah that's a bit like skype. Well I don't mind I am on unlimited and the packages are small. Good to know though.

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Dreal

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Ultimate Geek

#1357276 2-Aug-2015 20:03

ubergeeknz:
nathan:
mattwnz:

Although does that work if you are tethering a laptop to a mobiles WiFi hotspot, and the mobile is connected to 3G for it's internet.

Yes indeed that still works

How on earth would Windows know? Seems a bit far-fetched and prone to inaccuracy, to me.

Indeed.

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jjnz1

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#1357287 2-Aug-2015 20:26

scuwp: People still have data caps? How quaint...

Our holiday house runs off a 2 Degrees 3G connections.... It has a Windows 7 server also running so yes, this would effect me if I upgraded....

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