NZ citizen laptop, phones, usb confiscated by NZ customs on return to NZ

Forums › Off topic › NZ citizen laptop, phones, usb confiscated by NZ customs on return to NZ

gzt

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#137919 13-Dec-2013 12:57

This guy's laptop and phones were taken by NZ customs. They also asked for his passwords. It is making news internationally.

His theory is he attended a public meeting on anti-spying related to Snowden and tweeted about it:

At RIBA with @imogencrispe to continue the conversation about mass surveillance #debatestartshere #stopbuggingus pic.twitter.com/YcTEWG6taC— Sam Blackman (@srossblack) November 4, 2013

NZ Customs say that's not it:

"However, the Customs spokeswoman denied that was the case. "I can confirm that Mr Blackman's electronic equipment was detained in relation to suspicion of objectionable material," the spokeswoman said."

His journalist girlfriend also tweeted this from the same public meeting:

Rusbridger: Docs show close relationship of #GCHQ and #NSA, can't tell where one stops and the other begins #stopbuggingus #masssurveillance— Imogen (@imogencrispe) November 4, 2013

An idiot could take this to mean that she had been in contact with or been given the documents.

This would not be the first instance (internationally) of a journalist's partner being detained by customs in relation to the Snowden case.

So the question is: Would the possibility of Snowden's documents being present be included in the definition of 'suspicion of objectionable material'?

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#951588 13-Dec-2013 13:21

Does NZ customs in fact have the right to demand passwords or would it need to go further up the chain for that?

Pretty scary regardless.

@KnightNZ

MikeB4

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#951608 13-Dec-2013 13:44

stevenz: Does NZ customs in fact have the right to demand passwords or would it need to go further up the chain for that?

Pretty scary regardless.

In order to carry a search then yes they can, very similar to if your case was locked with combination lock, you would be required to advise customs of this.

NZtechfreak

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#951626 13-Dec-2013 13:55

Hmmn, might buy a phone for travel that I factory reset on departures...

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1080p

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#951649 13-Dec-2013 14:25

Haha, this is mental. Luckily all you need to to is configure a 'hidden' partition with TrueCrypt and install a fake/blank OS. Problem solved. :)

Sucks about the iPhone/iPad though.

openmedia

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#951651 13-Dec-2013 14:28

I can't provide the password to my encrypted work hard drive without permission from my legal department. How well would that go down?

MikeB4

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#951652 13-Dec-2013 14:30

openmedia: I can't provide the password to my encrypted work hard drive without permission from my legal department. How well would that go down?

They would probably seize it.

kingjj

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#951656 13-Dec-2013 14:31

He'll get his equipment back in due course. I can't help thinking that if he didn't have a journalist girlfriend than this would never had made news anywhere... this sort of thing happens to a lot of people, for all we know he's on a list as a suspected dodgy image traffickers ("objectionable material" covers all matter of sins) and the Snowden thing is a just a convenient excuse to force customs hand. I look forward to Campbell Live's spin factory picking this up.

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pinkydot

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#951664 13-Dec-2013 14:41

This case sound similar to a case happen this year. "Glenn Greenwald partner got arrested in Heathrow Airport."

testha

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#951684 13-Dec-2013 14:59

Sad to see this happening in NZ. But I guess people still think they got nothing to hide and its only for terrorist...

SaltyNZ

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#951685 13-Dec-2013 15:00

kingjj: He'll get his equipment back in due course.

Oh, well, I guess that's alright then. ಠ_ಠ

The problem, as I see it, is that there are no real checks and balances in place. For one thing apparently the official refused to tell him why they were confiscating his possessions, nor how long they would keep them for. This seems manifestly unjust on the face of it. Surely it is a basic right to know what crime one stands accused of? Also, authorities must only have 'reasonable cause' to believe an offence has occurred. Who judges what is a reasonable cause? Is it reviewed by anyone? What happens to officials who act with what turns out not to be reasonable cause? What compensation is offered to innocent people who are subjected to public humiliation in a very vulnerable situation, i.e. after many hours of exhausting travel with no available support other than whoever is travelling with them?

I guess you could always say that someone who was unjustly dealt with could sue the government, but for one thing, that's the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and for another, unless you're Kim Dotcom, you can't afford to take on the Crown.

I look forward to hearing how this plays out.

EDIT: I accidentally a word.

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MikeB4

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#951698 13-Dec-2013 15:07

SaltyNZ:
kingjj: He'll get his equipment back in due course.

Oh, well, I guess that's alright then. ಠ_ಠ

The problem, as I see it, is that there are no real checks and balances in place. For one thing apparently the official refused to tell him why they were confiscating his possessions, nor how long they would keep them for. This seems manifestly unjust on the face of it. Surely it is a basic right to know what crime one stands accused of? Also, authorities must only have 'reasonable cause' to believe an offence has occurred. Who judges what is a reasonable cause? Is it reviewed by anyone? What happens to officials who act with what turns out not to be reasonable cause? What compensation is offered to innocent people who are subjected to public humiliation in a very vulnerable situation, i.e. after many hours of exhausting travel with no available support other than whoever is travelling with them?

I guess you could always say that someone who was unjustly dealt with could sue the government, but for one thing, that's the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and for another, unless you're Kim Dotcom, you can't afford to take on the Crown.

I look forward to hearing how this plays out.

EDIT: I accidentally a word.

With customs its tricky until you clear customs you have not crossed the border and are not in New Zealand, therefore the rules are very cloudy indeed.

LennonNZ

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#951741 13-Dec-2013 15:59

"With customs its tricky until you clear customs you have not crossed the border and are not in New Zealand, therefore the rules are very cloudy indeed."

So where are you? Still under the law of the previous country you came from?

or no where? so whose laws are you under before going thru customs?

MikeB4

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#951746 13-Dec-2013 16:03

LennonNZ: "With customs its tricky until you clear customs you have not crossed the border and are not in New Zealand, therefore the rules are very cloudy indeed."

So where are you? Still under the law of the previous country you came from?

or no where? so whose laws are you under before going thru customs?

That would take pages and pages to write and you would be asleep within minutes :P

SaltyNZ

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#951751 13-Dec-2013 16:23

KiwiNZ:

That would take pages and pages to write and you would be asleep within minutes :P

So in other words, you can be charged with an offence under New Zealand law there, but you have none of the balancing protections of New Zealand law there? Wow...

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MikeB4

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#951763 13-Dec-2013 16:49

SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

That would take pages and pages to write and you would be asleep within minutes :P

So in other words, you can be charged with an offence under New Zealand law there, but you have none of the balancing protections of New Zealand law there? Wow...

I didnt say that.

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