So they can sell the freed up frequencies off to the highest bidder, like they did here when analogue TV went? 

DarthKermit:

 

So they can sell the freed up frequencies off to the highest bidder, like they did here when analogue TV went? 

 

Except they haven't sold the frequencies off here. The VHF frequencies would be suitable for DAB but digital radio in NZ is pretty much dead in the water with no plans to expand the trial DAB+ network or do anything with it.

(Yes you could argue that they sold the 700MHz spectrum for LTE but that wasn't really needed for TV anyway)

I can recall a geekzone Q&A done with mediaworks, the CEO back then indicated no interest in DAB...no money in it

a 20Mhz slice of spectrum around 100MHz would not be much use for cellular stuff. What other purchases would there be? Trunked radio has a new lease of life with digital modes - but is there a shortage of space for it? Perhaps low bandwitch IOT type stuff?

Struggling to see a need for DAB over FM, obviously quality sound isnt a concern to the broadcasters since they are linking thru some dire low bitrate stuff to the non auckland locations, and absurd amounts of processing and compression to be louder. Sure, they could offer a less compressed stream for DAB because of the lower noise but they wont, because loudness sells.

More selection just means they need to make more brands to run on it to compete with the other radio company who will be doing the same, and low interest stuff like ethnic broadcasts etc are well catered for by streaming.

If FM is turned off here ever, I think it will just be a turned off because its dead not a turned off to move to DAB situation.

richms:

 

a 20Mhz slice of spectrum around 100MHz would not be much use for cellular stuff. What other purchases would there be? Trunked radio has a new lease of life with digital modes - but is there a shortage of space for it? Perhaps low bandwitch IOT type stuff?

 

Struggling to see a need for DAB over FM, obviously quality sound isnt a concern to the broadcasters since they are linking thru some dire low bitrate stuff to the non auckland locations, and absurd amounts of processing and compression to be louder. Sure, they could offer a less compressed stream for DAB because of the lower noise but they wont, because loudness sells.

 

More selection just means they need to make more brands to run on it to compete with the other radio company who will be doing the same, and low interest stuff like ethnic broadcasts etc are well catered for by streaming.

 

If FM is turned off here ever, I think it will just be a turned off because its dead not a turned off to move to DAB situation.

 

So far I have not lived anywhere in NZ where a decent FM signal is available. The position when travelling by car is usually sub-optimal as well. We have 3 possible frequencies in this area for RNZ and my car reception is better on AM than FM for all of them almost everywhere within 40km of my house.

In what way does loudness matter? That is why radios have volume controls, surely?

Google up on the loudness wars with music and you will see what its done to CD, FM broadcasters are limited in what they can apply and still have a compliant signal come out the other end, but they do things like reducing the stereo subcarrier to being almost non existent inorder to get more of the available modulation for the mono sound and apply heavy bass removal so the rest of it gets louder. Being louder than the other stations means people are more likley to stop on it.

Geektastic:

 

 

 

In what way does loudness matter? That is why radios have volume controls, surely?

 

Adding a heavily compressed signal allows for better range with less perceived FM-noise.

I really can't stand listening to almost any NZ station via a headset, they sound like a brick wall.

In Norway all the radio stations that are moving to DAB have signed an agreement to keep at the same perceived loudness. Makes for less heart attacks when switching from a less loud station to one of the brick wall ones, and also makes it sound better, IMHO.

Typical that I left Norway just as they really got serious with DAB, being able for hours on end listing to the same radio channel without FM noise and frequency switching was great.

Here in NZ most stations don't seem to understand what RDS and its alternative frequency features are good for.. Which means that when I leave my local area (which is not fully covered by any station), and go traveling, I will loose that station as I get out of range, even if they have transmitters with the same program along the way. So have given up listening to FM radio when on the road here.

Geektastic:

 

richms:

 

a 20Mhz slice of spectrum around 100MHz would not be much use for cellular stuff. What other purchases would there be? Trunked radio has a new lease of life with digital modes - but is there a shortage of space for it? Perhaps low bandwitch IOT type stuff?

 

Struggling to see a need for DAB over FM, obviously quality sound isnt a concern to the broadcasters since they are linking thru some dire low bitrate stuff to the non auckland locations, and absurd amounts of processing and compression to be louder. Sure, they could offer a less compressed stream for DAB because of the lower noise but they wont, because loudness sells.

 

More selection just means they need to make more brands to run on it to compete with the other radio company who will be doing the same, and low interest stuff like ethnic broadcasts etc are well catered for by streaming.

 

If FM is turned off here ever, I think it will just be a turned off because its dead not a turned off to move to DAB situation.

 

 

 

 

So far I have not lived anywhere in NZ where a decent FM signal is available. The position when travelling by car is usually sub-optimal as well. We have 3 possible frequencies in this area for RNZ and my car reception is better on AM than FM for all of them almost everywhere within 40km of my house.

 

If you're in such a poor area for FM then DAB+ would be a nightmare to deploy in band III. The cost of building a DAB+ network that would even get slightly close to mirroring FM coverage is the reason it'll never occur.

Geektastic: Dab would be great. FM reception is usually very sub par.

FM's limited range is a pain. The only radio station I regularly listen to is Radio NZ. In a car, the frequencies keep moving around and there doesn't seem to be any directory for finding out what frequency covers what area. You have to pull over and play with the radio......at the same time aware it may not be on FM at all where you currently are.

Close to useless when travelling.  Better to stream it over 3G/4G on the phone and bluetooth it to the car audio system. Defacto digital radio. 

Linuxluver:

Geektastic: Dab would be great. FM reception is usually very sub par.

FM's limited range is a pain. The only radio station I regularly listen to is Radio NZ. In a car, the frequencies keep moving around and there doesn't seem to be any directory for finding out what frequency covers what area. You have to pull over and play with the radio......at the same time aware it may not be on FM at all where you currently are.

Close to useless when travelling.  Better to stream it over 3G/4G on the phone and bluetooth it to the car audio system. Defacto digital radio. 

Geektastic:

Linuxluver:

 

FM's limited range is a pain. The only radio station I regularly listen to is Radio NZ. In a car, the frequencies keep moving around and there doesn't seem to be any directory for finding out what frequency covers what area. You have to pull over and play with the radio......at the same time aware it may not be on FM at all where you currently are.

 

I thought RDS was meant to solve that by automatically switching frequency S you drive?

It does. A couple of days ago I drove from Wellington to New Plymouth and had coverage on RNZ National for almost the entire distance. My radio automatically handed over between the Kaukau, Manuwatu, Wanganui and Taranaki frequencies with no intervention needed.

Unfortunately this doesn't necessarily work with the Mediaworks stations as they don't use RDS consistently in all regions and stations. 

sbiddle:

 

If you're in such a poor area for FM then DAB+ would be a nightmare to deploy in band III. The cost of building a DAB+ network that would even get slightly close to mirroring FM coverage is the reason it'll never occur.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because its a higher frequency, it will have significantly worse coverage. The new national DAB+ networks in Norway gives the broadcasters better coverage than they had with FM.

DAB/DAB+ allows for single frequency networks where interference from things like valley echoes etc. are a thing of the past. And you don't have to cover areas with multiple frequencies and transmitters to avoid frequency overlap.

In addition, with one single frequency DAB+ network  allows for around 18 channels, depending on their bitrates. So the cost would be a lot lower than building 18 national FM networks (which, in addition to the cost, probably wouldn't be possible because of a lack of frequencies).

I understand that there are differences between NZ and Norway when it comes to how radio stations operate. Norway has 2 commercial national radio stations, and a number of larger local stations with frequencies in the larger cities (more like how the "national" commercial radio stations operate here in New Zealand).

The two national commercial radio operators have in addition been building several new stations that are only available on DAB+. So there is a huge amount of national channels available via DAB+ at the moment. NRK, the state funded radio operator have also create quite a broad range of radio stations that have been available on DAB, and will be transitioning to DAB+ this year.

The difference in how the radio stations operate here vs in Norway might make it harder to get together to make the investment, and I am guessing that the larger commercial operators might fear allowing competitors equal access to the radio listeners.. 

Here there are 2 commercial networks who I guess would each set their own mux up and then the remainder of broadcasters would get dumped onto a common one run by kordia, just like happens with TV on freeview at the moment. Not at all that different but unless they were to commit to an fm switchoff it is just spending more money on transmission to try and maintain a 50ish% share of listeners on their brands.

Aucklands coverage on dab from the one test transmitter is pretty terrible, but no idea how much power they are putting out on it - probably stuff all since its a test. 

I haven't listened to radio on the road for years. Way too much trouble. I download my music and play it off the USB. If I want to catch the news, I stop and tune it in or stream it.