Sign o' the times

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#280411 13-Dec-2020 12:51

Prince wrote his acclaimed single Sign o' the times in 1986 as a dark introspective look at the largely self-imposed horrors befalling US & world society at that time. References to pandemic disease, drugs, guns & impending nuclear holocaust built the track voted 1987 Song of the year & later, Song of the century.

"In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name..."

This year the disease has a new name, but his song is still relevant.

I was on Mt Eden Rd yesterday, this image caught my eye. It is a sign of the times v2020.

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marpada

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#2620888 13-Dec-2020 13:10

Some commercial areas were struggling well before the pandemic, for example Johnsonville. Consumer habits change and morepeople prefer online shopping to brick-and-mortar businesses. In the US mega malls have been closing for years as they just cannot compete against Amazon. At the same time residential properties prices are sky rocketing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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#2620937 13-Dec-2020 15:51

It’s certainly very sad seeing businesses close, more people out of work and struggling. I’m as guilty as most buying online but when I go to the supermarket I purposely stand in line at the checkout rather than using self service. That’s my small contribution to keeping people in jobs at checkout. Shops like Kmart have only one manned counter for checkout so you are almost forced to use self service.

Soon to come, those empty shops are going to become accommodation the same way that corner dairies of the past closed and were bought to be lived in and I suspect soon the same will apply in cities because landlords still have to pay hefty insurance and rates whether buildings are tenanted or not and it’s not sustainable.

JetA1

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#2621020 13-Dec-2020 19:57

I remember when I was a kid, (quite a few years ago), they said "In the future there'll be robots which can do anything at all - so no-one will have to work any more". This sounded like a good thing. BUT now it becomes obvious: It has in some, indeed many, industries come to pass that many workers have been replaced by machines, and it transpires that this is not really a good thing at all. Those workers then become unemployed for a time, perhaps permanently. What if everyone became unemployed permanently. What would people do ? Where would they get income from ? Would everyone become a pauper ?

We really need to work on this scenario a bit before we engage it.

neb

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#2621098 13-Dec-2020 21:31

JetA1:
It has in some, indeed many, industries come to pass that many workers have been replaced by machines, and it transpires that this is not really a good thing at all. Those workers then become unemployed for a time, perhaps permanently. What if everyone became unemployed permanently. What would people do ? Where would they get income from ? Would everyone become a pauper ?

Thankyou, Captain Ludd.

More seriously, this argument has been around since the late 1700s and the advent of mechanisation. The doomsday scenarios that were predicted have never really appeared because there's always a new form of work that appears when an existing form is replaced.

elpenguino

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#2621109 13-Dec-2020 22:15

neb:
JetA1:

What if everyone became unemployed permanently. What would people do ? Where would they get income from ? Would everyone become a pauper ?

The doomsday scenarios that were predicted have never really appeared because there's always a new form of work that appears when an existing form is replaced.

True, although look at it another way. What happens when the world continues on the current trajectory to the nth degree and the economies of the world become dominated by relatively few mega-corps (google, amazon, apple etc) which hoover up huge amounts of money without redistributing it (as tax or other payments) ?

Do we say 'great, you've been successful, keep the money' or something else?

Re the OP. Are we sure this branch didn't just move to new premises or something?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2621111 13-Dec-2020 22:34

True, although look at it another way. What happens when the world continues on the current trajectory to the nth degree and the economies of the world become dominated by relatively few mega-corps (google, amazon, apple etc) which hoover up huge amounts of money without redistributing it (as tax or other payments) ?

Do we say 'great, you've been successful, keep the money' or something else?

Re the OP. Are we sure this branch didn't just move to new premises or something?

It's my understanding from taking to a 20-year veteran of Mt Eden Rd business, that the office I photographed was a short-lived effort at expansion by a Christchurch company. My post didn't comment on the circumstance, I just thought the visual irony was interesting & representative of 2020 - a sign o' the times as Prince Rogers Nelson would say.

Capitalism via the exchange of nation-state issued currency, although well established in our minds, is not necessarily the paradigm for future economies.

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tripper1000

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#2621194 14-Dec-2020 09:40

elpenguino: True, although look at it another way. What happens when the world continues on the current trajectory to the nth degree and the economies of the world become dominated by relatively few mega-corps (google, amazon, apple etc) which hoover up huge amounts of money without redistributing it (as tax or other payments) ?

One of the great things about the free market that many don't grasp is that there is a circle of cause and effect which leads to it being self balancing (mostly).

If the hypothetical future mega-corp hoovers up all the money or hoovers up all the jobs with its robots, then no one has any money to spend and the economy dies. (one of the causes of a recession is that the money is not circulating or changing hands). A company can't survive trading with only itself. Some will argue that mega-corp won as they have all the money, but that shows a lack of understanding of trade works as money is just worthless paper tokens if it can't be spent. Money is just a mechanism to make bartering easier. If I grow food on my farm, (or produce anything that other people want and will trade me for) it doesn't matter what mega corp gets up to with all the money, I'll barter some of my wheat for someone else beef/or roof repairs/or clothes/or fuel etc. You and I will eventually find a replacement currency because the dollars that mega corp has in their vaults will be useless to us (and them).

Re taxes, if the only people with money don't pay taxes, the place will got down the tubes like Somalia, Zimbabwe or Greece, and again mega corp looses out. They can be the greatest company in Somalia, but it won't mean much.

Central banks have a weapon against someone hoarding all the money - the printing press. If Mega Corp has all the money the central bank just prints money and the resulting inflation devalues/dilutes Mega Corps wealth. This is when assets (that generate wealth) matter.

Even if the economy totally dies, it will rise from the ashes because it lives in the mind of humans - this has happened over and over throughout history.

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#2621220 14-Dec-2020 10:40

Isn't there a song about the circle of life :)

As someone who has been on the wrong side of technological advancements (used to own a Civic Video franchise), it is indeed frustrating when the world moves on beyond what was a good offering, but the world does move on and you have to aswell. There was little adaptation that could be done from a shop hiring out DVDs in the franchise model, but looking back now, perhaps there were things we could have done to diversify income (much like EB Games now with their collectibles offerings taking up as much if not more shelf space than games sales) or specialise more heavily (Alice in Videoland, Aro video etc) but at the time when we closed, funds (and motivation) were exhausted.

There is much in the media about kiwis returning from abroad and setting up a business and I've also seen lately puff pieces on how setting up a business is a "smart investment" when compared to a house. I truly hope all those that are investing or taking that risk succeed as its not easy, even when you have "proven systems" to guide you.....

tripper1000

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#2621232 14-Dec-2020 11:21

And another point - there are many countries. When one is badly run, people flea and move to another that is better run (provided their path isn't blocked of course).

The world is fully well run, mediocre run and badly run economies. Something important to consider is where we want to sit on the list and weather the people putting themselves forward for election have a viable solution (or any solution at all!) for important economic issues, such as over priced housing, city planning, infrastructure etc.

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#2621234 14-Dec-2020 11:31

tripper1000:

Even if the economy totally dies, it will rise from the ashes because it lives in the mind of humans - this has happened over and over throughout history.

Whilst maybe true, it is cold comfort to those made jobless, homeless, sick and/or bereaved due to the resulting crushing poverty.

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#2621238 14-Dec-2020 11:42

JetA1:

What if everyone became unemployed permanently. What would people do ? Where would they get income from ? Would everyone become a pauper ?

If *everyone* was unemployed, it would cost nothing to build a car or a house or to grow a crop or to transport goods or to mine some ore. So everything would be free. So it wouldn't matter if you were a pauper. People would be free to become artistic. I expect that entertainment, including professional sports, would be an even bigger industry.

But, in reality, money is a *human* thing. It's a way for people to represent value. And goods would have value depending on their availability. If it takes a long time to produce goods, then they will be less valuable than a similar item that is available immediately. And the same goes for resources needed to manufacture goods; whatever resource (especially energy) is in short supply will be more expensive. And whoever controls those resources will become wealthy.