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Nety
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  #866315 26-Jul-2013 08:13
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Everyone seems to be talking like there are no options out there already. There are. From software like Netnanny that runs on the PC to filtering at the router level. People already have the ability to filter so what exactly is ISP filtering going to add other then another cost that ISP's will pass on to every person that uses them. I have two teenage kids and have always managed what they can access on the web, as they get older I open it up bit by bit. As someone has already said there are some ISP's that already offer this service. If people want this control then they can go to that ISP, do not force ISP's to have it.
Quite frankly I do not think it would make any difference anyway as the parents that do care what their kids do on the net already control what they do, the others would not opt in anyway.







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nicnzl
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#866319 26-Jul-2013 08:32
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Klipspringer:
SaltyNZ:
Klipspringer: Lets not go down the road of, if it happens its bad parenting.


Ok, how about we just say that your inability to control what goes on in your own home does not mean that the rest of us can't manage it without government assistance.


It is under control in our own home.

Why do u think otherwise?

Kids go out to places. They go to sleepovers. They can use other PC's, laptops etc ....
How do you propose any parent control that?

IE: my 6year old gets behind a friends computer that has been used the night before to watch some porn. She clicks on the location bar, it brings down a list of recent sites. She accidentally click on the latest one. Don't tell me it cant happen with a 5 year old!

As I said previously. Young kids do not need to see this stuff. Anything that proposes to limit it, or make it harder for kids to get there hands on it (accidentally/or on purpose), cannot be bad!


Instead of relying on the ISP's to solve this non-issue, you should just send a friendly text to your daughters friends parents asking if they could please delete their browsing history from last night and change google to strict safe search in case they want to search the name of the NZ mens badminton team.

freitasm
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  #866323 26-Jul-2013 08:42
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I hope people realise New Zealand already has a filter in place to prevent people accessing child exploitation.

There is no need to expand it in future and people shouldn't use this as argument. This would only confirm previous fears of a slupery slope.




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Inphinity
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  #866324 26-Jul-2013 08:46
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Klipspringer:

Will pornography have a negative influence if seen by young kids?

Yes of course.

Then surely we should be asking why are we not blocking it?


So does violence. So block all violence-related content, and contact sport content, too. Oh, and watch out, there might be some naughty words on the internet, so block all words while we're at it.

There seem to be a number of people in this thread how are automatically translating "porn" into "child porn" - the latter of which is illegal, and absolutely should be blocked (I thought it already was, to the best of our abilities, anyway?). Did you know your kids might stumble into a dairy or magazine shop and seen adult-oriented magazines? Oh no, shut down any shops selling magazines!

Oh, and while we're at it.. "Yes of course"? Rubbish. It might, sure. But it isn't a definite - depending on the specific kid, their upbringing, awareness, guidance, etc, and the particular content, in some cases it can simply be an education opportunity.

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  #866333 26-Jul-2013 08:55
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Others have pointed it out before, but let me say it again: A porn filter will do nothing but make it a little harder for any computer literate human being to find porn on the internet.

Any teenager will know to use Tor, VPN or another service to get around the porn filter. So putting it in place will have no real effect, other than making your internet connection more expensive.

As to porn. There is this: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/10/how_the_web_prevents_rape.html

There are research that points to porn actually reducing rape.

And then there is the question if we really want to live in a society that nanny us to death.




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jarledb
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  #866334 26-Jul-2013 08:57
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Inphinity: 
Oh, and while we're at it.. "Yes of course"? Rubbish. It might, sure. But it isn't a definite - depending on the specific kid, their upbringing, awareness, guidance, etc, and the particular content, in some cases it can simply be an education opportunity.


You can add to that recipes of food that is bad for you, any web sites that promote or advertise for food that is bad for you etc. After all we want the best for you...




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PaulBags
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  #866335 26-Jul-2013 08:59
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Klipspringer:
SaltyNZ:
Klipspringer: Lets not go down the road of, if it happens its bad parenting.
Ok, how about we just say that your inability to control what goes on in your own home does not mean that the rest of us can't manage it without government assistance.
It is under control in our own home. Why do u think otherwise?Kids go out to places. They go to sleepovers. They can use other PC's, laptops etc ....How do you propose any parent control that?IE: my 6year old gets behind a friends computer that has been used the night before to watch some porn. She clicks on the location bar, it brings down a list of recent sites. She accidentally click on the latest one. Don't tell me it cant happen with a 5 year old! As I said previously. Young kids do not need to see this stuff. Anything that proposes to limit it, or make it harder for kids to get there hands on it (accidentally/or on purpose), cannot be bad!


So let's be clear: your arguing from the position that it shouldn't be possible to opt out in case your kid comes to my house and starts randomly clicking things on my computer? I'd expect any guest in my house to have more respect than that, 6 years old or not. Perhaps you should actually talk to the parents of your childrens friends; if you don't like their answers about internet security, don't let your kid stay there.

 

Klipspringer: Children Are Severely Victimized by Pornography

The combination of pornography and the pedophiles it produces is deadly for children. The brutal abuse of children by pedophiles pumped up on porn is tragic, shocking and heartbreaking.

Men who view pornography portraying 18-year-old women dressed to look like young teens, often act out their prurient sexual cravings by raping"real" young teens.

Children and teens who are exposed to pornography have these images etched in their memories for the rest of their lives. These images can be triggered and can surface without warning, leaving the potential for numerous problems in future life.

Internet pornography is often the first exposure that children and teens have to sexual images. This plants in them a twisted and perverse view of human intimacy that is difficult or impossible to weed out. These early learning experiences can lead to sexual deviancy and crime, and often negatively affect their future relationships and marriages.

When a father or mother is involved with pornography, the children will suffer in some way. This can range from something as simple as a parent who is often moody, angry, or "in his or her own world," to a father or mother who commits incest. Pornography hurts husband and wife relationships and breaks up marriages, which of course seriously impacts the children in the family. Only pain is in store for children with a father or mother hooked on pornography.


And we wonder why our society has turned out the way it has.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

First of all, pedophiles aren't interested in porn. It's possible they may use it in trying to groom a child for sex, buy they are by definition sexually interested in young children, not legal porn.

It's a big leap from porn to raping people. Rapists rape for the power and control. Also the majority of "18-year-old women dressed to look like young teens" on the internet are actually clearly in their 30's and wearing alot of make up. Or they are 18, have no idea how to act or have sex, and are down right boring.

As for imagery stuck in a teenagers mind: I have the image of a few female teachers from back in the day in the back of my mind somewhere, should we ban female teachers? Or make or women wear burkas? I suppose your also a supporter of same sex schools? At least I never heard of anyone being raped in a mixed sex school, can't say the same for all boy's schools.

Walking in on their parents is often a childs first exposure to sexual imagery too. It's the explanations (or lack of) afterwards or beforehand that matter. I posit that lack of knowledge about sex is far more damaging to adolescents.

And as for that last statement.. What?. That only happens to ultra conservative stuck ups, or when parents start smoking crack.

And finally: the scare tactics of one online porn filter do not amount to meaningful research.

Klipspringer
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  #866336 26-Jul-2013 09:01
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nicnzl:

Instead of relying on the ISP's to solve this non-issue, you should just send a friendly text to your daughters friends parents asking if they could please delete their browsing history from last night and change google to strict safe search in case they want to search the name of the NZ mens badminton team.


Its an example I used to demonstrate how its not possible to fully parent this thing.

freitasm: I hope people realise Nee Zealand already has a filter in place to prevent people accessing child exploitation. There is no need to expand it in future and people shouldn't use this as
argument.


Great stuff. Then lets expand on that.

Nobody is proposing banning anything.

I seriously don't see whats wrong with a "I want porn" or "I don't want porn" option to be made available to everyone.

IMO. The real issue here is that porn users will have to admit that they want to subscribe or have the ability to view porn. Maybe they feel guilty and don't want to have to take that step (there wives, girlfriends will find out LOL)
If there is guilt - WELL THEN MAYBE THATS A SIGN THAT YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY!!!!

So maybe the answer to all of this is GUILT???

How many porn users out there are comfortable with their parents, partners, family finding out that they watch porn? If you go to a hotel are you comfortable with the "porn tv" appearing on your credit card statement? Would you still watch the porn in the hotel if the name of the porn show was put onto your statement? I guess not.

Most of this debate has so far being going around "pornography is bad". Well if its not bad, then it must be good? And honestly that not an argument. I think we should be talking about why censorship on the internet is not a good thing. Lets not focus this discussion on whats morraly right or wrong?

I personally would hate to see the internet being cencored. And I dont think that this has anything to do with censoring anything.

If people have a problem with censoring - Well that's already being done as freitasm pointed out. Therefore the slippery slope started with that. It does not start with a "i want porn" option on my internet connection.

This is about protecting our kids.

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  #866337 26-Jul-2013 09:02
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jarledb:

Any teenager will know to use Tor, VPN or another service to get around the porn filter. So putting it in place will have no real effect, other than making your internet connection more expensive.



Agreed.

But it will make it harder for my 6 year old to stumble across it. And thats what this is all about

MikeB4
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  #866340 26-Jul-2013 09:03
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PaulBags:
Klipspringer:
SaltyNZ:
Klipspringer: Lets not go down the road of, if it happens its bad parenting.
Ok, how about we just say that your inability to control what goes on in your own home does not mean that the rest of us can't manage it without government assistance.
It is under control in our own home. Why do u think otherwise?Kids go out to places. They go to sleepovers. They can use other PC's, laptops etc ....How do you propose any parent control that?IE: my 6year old gets behind a friends computer that has been used the night before to watch some porn. She clicks on the location bar, it brings down a list of recent sites. She accidentally click on the latest one. Don't tell me it cant happen with a 5 year old! As I said previously. Young kids do not need to see this stuff. Anything that proposes to limit it, or make it harder for kids to get there hands on it (accidentally/or on purpose), cannot be bad!


So let's be clear: your arguing from the position that it shouldn't be possible to opt out in case your kid comes to my house and starts randomly clicking things on my computer? I'd expect any guest in my house to have more respect than that, 6 years old or not. Perhaps you should actually talk to the parents of your childrens friends; if you don't like their answers about internet security, don't let your kid stay there.

 

Klipspringer: Children Are Severely Victimized by Pornography

The combination of pornography and the pedophiles it produces is deadly for children. The brutal abuse of children by pedophiles pumped up on porn is tragic, shocking and heartbreaking.

Men who view pornography portraying 18-year-old women dressed to look like young teens, often act out their prurient sexual cravings by raping"real" young teens.

Children and teens who are exposed to pornography have these images etched in their memories for the rest of their lives. These images can be triggered and can surface without warning, leaving the potential for numerous problems in future life.

Internet pornography is often the first exposure that children and teens have to sexual images. This plants in them a twisted and perverse view of human intimacy that is difficult or impossible to weed out. These early learning experiences can lead to sexual deviancy and crime, and often negatively affect their future relationships and marriages.

When a father or mother is involved with pornography, the children will suffer in some way. This can range from something as simple as a parent who is often moody, angry, or "in his or her own world," to a father or mother who commits incest. Pornography hurts husband and wife relationships and breaks up marriages, which of course seriously impacts the children in the family. Only pain is in store for children with a father or mother hooked on pornography.


And we wonder why our society has turned out the way it has.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

First of all, pedophiles aren't interested in porn. It's possible they may use it in trying to groom a child for sex, buy they are by definition sexually interested in young children, not legal porn.

It's a big leap from porn to raping people. Rapists rape for the power and control. Also the majority of "18-year-old women dressed to look like young teens" on the internet are actually clearly in their 30's and wearing alot of make up. Or they are 18, have no idea how to act or have sex, and are down right boring.

As for imagery stuck in a teenagers mind: I have the image of a few female teachers from back in the day in the back of my mind somewhere, should we ban female teachers? Or make or women wear burkas? I suppose your also a supporter of same sex schools? At least I never heard of anyone being raped in a mixed sex school, can't say the same for all boy's schools.

Walking in on their parents is often a childs first exposure to sexual imagery too. It's the explanations (or lack of) afterwards or beforehand that matter. I posit that lack of knowledge about sex is far more damaging to adolescents.

And as for that last statement.. What?. That only happens to ultra conservative stuck ups, or when parents start smoking crack.

And finally: the scare tactics of one online porn filter do not amount to meaningful research.


It is not a laughing matter




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Klipspringer
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  #866341 26-Jul-2013 09:03
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PaulBags:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

First of all, pedophiles aren't interested in porn. It's possible they may use it in trying to groom a child for sex, buy they are by definition sexually interested in young children, not legal porn.

It's a big leap from porn to raping people. Rapists rape for the power and control. Also the majority of "18-year-old women dressed to look like young teens" on the internet are actually clearly in their 30's and wearing alot of make up. Or they are 18, have no idea how to act or have sex, and are down right boring.

As for imagery stuck in a teenagers mind: I have the image of a few female teachers from back in the day in the back of my mind somewhere, should we ban female teachers? Or make or women wear burkas? I suppose your also a supporter of same sex schools? At least I never heard of anyone being raped in a same sex school, can't say the same for all boy's schools.

Walking in on their parents is often a childs first exposure to sexual imagery too. It's the explanations (or lack of) afterwards or beforehand that matter. I posit that lack of knowledge about sex is far more damaging to adolescents.

And as for that last statement.. What?. That only happens to ultra conservative stuck ups, or when parents start smoking crack.

And finally: the scare tactics of one online porn filter do not amount to meaningful research.


That quote comes from the netnanny website.

Maybe you should take it up with them. Netnanny has been recommended right here in this thread as the answer to the current problem

jarledb
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  #866342 26-Jul-2013 09:05
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Klipspringer: 

This is about protecting our kids.


By that logic there should be in opt in option for alcohol information on the net too. Not to mention making it harder to get to alcohol in shops. I think we can agree that alcohol is a much bigger problem than porn.




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MikeB4
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  #866344 26-Jul-2013 09:06
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freitasm: I hope people realise New Zealand already has a filter in place to prevent people accessing child exploitation.

There is no need to expand it in future and people shouldn't use this as argument. This would only confirm previous fears of a slupery slope.


If it is not fully doing the job then maybe it should be beefed up, I have no issue with that,  and the slippery slope argument is a smoke screen or FUD




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

jarledb
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  #866345 26-Jul-2013 09:07
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Klipspringer:
But it will make it harder for my 6 year old to stumble across it. And thats what this is all about


And for that you have software and other solutions that are easy to put in place if you want to nanny your computer or your network.

Why does that have to be put in place for everyone?




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Klipspringer
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  #866347 26-Jul-2013 09:10
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jarledb:
Klipspringer:
But it will make it harder for my 6 year old to stumble across it. And thats what this is all about


And for that you have software and other solutions that are easy to put in place if you want to nanny your computer or your network.

Why does that have to be put in place for everyone?


And that software and protection I can only put in place at home.

Why does everyone have to receive porn?

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