New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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#2619847 11-Dec-2020 08:55

gzt:
tdgeek: Its not hard, its inconvenient. Re the vaccine, the scientists worked together, no one else. To make changes with climate change you need political will, which is not there.

A significant part of the effort with Covid was pharmaceutical companies. Why not do the same with science and engineering companies? It can be done.

The pharmaceutical companies did it because they are going to make billions of dollars. Who's going to make billions out of solving climate change?

BlinkyBill

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#2619958 11-Dec-2020 10:38

Tesla is the world’s highest valued car company. At the other end of the scale, have you heard of Gravity Fishing Co (handline fish-to-order fishing business)? There are a tremendous number of businesses working on all sorts of things.

Climate change initiatives will drive innovation which will focus on sustainability and reduction of pollution and so forth. Existing businesses who don’t innovate will die and be replaced.

Huntakillaz

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#2621571 15-Dec-2020 00:13

Things will only happen if companies decide to make the moves first.

Like recycling when we first started 15-20yrs ago,

But whats happened, packaging for the most part has remained the same or gotten worse.

If companies aren't using sustainable/recyclable packaging then the consumer starts feeling helpless, they want to do their part but 90% of the product type on the shelves have the same unsustainable packaging and the 10% who do are priced higher because of costs ( which would drop due to efficiencies and larger volume sales if the other companies got on board).

A well off customer might be able to afford the recyclable package the poor customer won't, multiply that one scenario by the 200+ items a customer would buy in a month

A customer can feel defeated because whats the point of them putting what effort they can but companies and other people aren't.

We moved to fabric bags because plastic is bad, what do I see now, bags bought and used once or twice then in the bins

No recycling scheme for them at the supermarket.

Bags still goto the landfill and sea, take less time to breakdown sure but still gonna be a problem.

And that there is the problem, the entire line top to bottom needs an overhaul in order to make it work.

Things will only happen if companies decide to make the moves and band together.

Another thing is to push for sustainable living in both housing and business.

EV cars, solar roofing on housing and buildings.

Coupled with smart homes and automation to save power where possible

Geektastic

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#2621753 15-Dec-2020 10:26

Huntakillaz:

Things will only happen if companies decide to make the moves first.

Like recycling when we first started 15-20yrs ago,

But whats happened, packaging for the most part has remained the same or gotten worse.

If companies aren't using sustainable/recyclable packaging then the consumer starts feeling helpless, they want to do their part but 90% of the product type on the shelves have the same unsustainable packaging and the 10% who do are priced higher because of costs ( which would drop due to efficiencies and larger volume sales if the other companies got on board).

A well off customer might be able to afford the recyclable package the poor customer won't, multiply that one scenario by the 200+ items a customer would buy in a month

A customer can feel defeated because whats the point of them putting what effort they can but companies and other people aren't.

We moved to fabric bags because plastic is bad, what do I see now, bags bought and used once or twice then in the bins

No recycling scheme for them at the supermarket.

Bags still goto the landfill and sea, take less time to breakdown sure but still gonna be a problem.

And that there is the problem, the entire line top to bottom needs an overhaul in order to make it work.

Things will only happen if companies decide to make the moves and band together.

Another thing is to push for sustainable living in both housing and business.

EV cars, solar roofing on housing and buildings.

Coupled with smart homes and automation to save power where possible

Don't assume recycling is universally available either. We do not even get council bin collection, much less recycling collection.

I also have some doubts as to how "recycled" the stuff that people send for recycling actually is - it would not surprise me in the least if much of it just ends up in a landfill somewhere.

tdgeek

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#2635211 14-Jan-2021 09:04

Good article

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/13/world/biodiversity-climate-intl-scli/index.html

Key point is

"Maybe people certainly recognize it, but they don't understand the urgency, or maybe they recognize it, but they don't want to take the individual sacrifice," he said.

The time delays between ecological deterioration and its socioeconomic impacts mean people do not grasp the seriousness and timeliness of the problem, the report's authors said.

Its one thing when we had stuff to the atmosphere that causes climate change, but there are many other non gas factors that do this, such as reducing greenery on the Earths surface, and this reducing oxygen supply and reducing carbon sequestering. And many factors feed the cycle. It gets warmer, more ice melts, reducing the natural solar reflection so we absorb more heat from the Sun. Methane release from tundra. Water retains more heat, oxygen declines, it gets toxic, marine life die = more gases. Its a continual cycle. We need carbon sequestering as well as omission reduction. But it seems ok outside, and I dont want to spend money now.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123931638/earths-lungs-could-start-deteriorating-in-as-little-as-two-decades

Too much atmospheric heat, forget plants sucking up carbon, too much, they stop doing that, they release it.

Rikkitic

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#2635517 14-Jan-2021 14:26

We have had that discussion here many times. Whether they agree there's a problem or not, no-one wants to make any sacrifices. 'You go first!' 'No, you go first!' And so on and so on.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#2635561 14-Jan-2021 14:31

@Rikkitic I think its worse than 'You go first!' 'No, you go first!' And so on and so on." Many just don't care about others who are living and don't give a toss about those who have yet to live. It is me me me and it ends at me for so many.

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tdgeek

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#2635583 14-Jan-2021 15:11

Rikkitic:

We have had that discussion here many times. Whether they agree there's a problem or not, no-one wants to make any sacrifices. 'You go first!' 'No, you go first!' And so on and so on.

Yep. Everyone cares, no one acts. There is no unity. But these two articles keep it front and centre. Its a great pity that when we do act, it will be mitigation issues. Buy an EV as oil just ran out, here are discounts on sea walls, etc. But its WAY worse than a bit warmer and growing maize on the next latitude and grapes in the UK (which is happening). Way worse.

MikeB4

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#2635586 14-Jan-2021 15:17

tdgeek:

Yep. Everyone cares, no one acts. There is no unity. But these two articles keep it front and centre. Its a great pity that when we do act, it will be mitigation issues. Buy an EV as oil just ran out, here are discounts on sea walls, etc. But its WAY worse than a bit warmer and growing maize on the next latitude and grapes in the UK (which is happening). Way worse.

Grapes have been grown in the UK for a very long time, since the Roman insurgence. It's Beer they have no idea about 😇

tdgeek

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#2635592 14-Jan-2021 15:18

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

Yep. Everyone cares, no one acts. There is no unity. But these two articles keep it front and centre. Its a great pity that when we do act, it will be mitigation issues. Buy an EV as oil just ran out, here are discounts on sea walls, etc. But its WAY worse than a bit warmer and growing maize on the next latitude and grapes in the UK (which is happening). Way worse.

Grapes have been grown in the UK for a very long time, since the Roman insurgence. It's Beer they have no idea about 😇

Oh ok, thanks for that Mike, I was sure I read a few years ago they are growing there, my mistake. Yes +1 re their beers!

MikeB4

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#2635594 14-Jan-2021 15:22

When it come to climate change action procrastination will be our epitaph

Rikkitic

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#2635600 14-Jan-2021 15:30

I'm not sure it will be our epitaph. That is certainly possible but humanity has a knack of pulling out all the stops and turning things around at the last possible moment when everything goes so wrong that nobody can ignore it any longer. The difference is that even if we do that, there will be enormous environmental damage that cannot be repaired, and the cost of remedial measures will be immense, forcing most of us to lead a marginal peasant existence for generations and generations while we try to repair the systems that keep us alive.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#2635605 14-Jan-2021 15:36

Rikkitic:
I'm not sure it will be our epitaph. That is certainly possible but humanity has a knack of pulling out all the stops and turning things around at the last possible moment when everything goes so wrong that nobody can ignore it any longer. The difference is that even if we do that, there will be enormous environmental damage that cannot be repaired, and the cost of remedial measures will be immense, forcing most of us to lead a marginal peasant existence for generations and generations while we try to repair the systems that keep us alive.

Rather sounds like it will force none of us to do that as I suspect we’ll be dead.

MikeB4

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#2635612 14-Jan-2021 15:46

Apparently the plastic sheets that our new bed came in is not recycled in Aotearoa even though it is marked as recyclable.

I am repurposing it at home by cutting it into strips and using it as plant ties in our vegetable garden.

tdgeek

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#2635613 14-Jan-2021 15:47

Rikkitic:

I'm not sure it will be our epitaph. That is certainly possible but humanity has a knack of pulling out all the stops and turning things around at the last possible moment when everything goes so wrong that nobody can ignore it any longer. The difference is that even if we do that, there will be enormous environmental damage that cannot be repaired, and the cost of remedial measures will be immense, forcing most of us to lead a marginal peasant existence for generations and generations while we try to repair the systems that keep us alive.

I feel it's worse. Too hot, less places to live and grow crops. Water warms up, sea levels rise, less places to live. Fresh water is scarce. As the Great Water Tunnel slows down, as it will when cold water vs warm water becomes warm water vs warmer water, that disrupts the whole climate. Warm air stops plants sucking in CO2, they then respire it. More people, less places to live, less places to grow food = a disaster, then you get wars to grab land. Its not just about emissions its about population growth, emissions, and removing green areas that suck up CO2. Methane seeps from tundra, it all feeds on itself. If we ceased all of this tomorrow, the gases we have omitted will be up there for a long long time, and while the globe is then 100% green and we are replanting greenery, the ice melts, it keep feeding itself. Less ice to reflect solar, more methane leaking, its a runaway train. Not solved by running your aircon longer, aircons dont grow food.

2 degrees becomes 3 degrees, becomes 4 degrees, 6, 7 etc. There is a doco, cant find it, along the lines pf if the earth increased by 2 degrees, went through all the scenarios at each level. To 6 degrees from memory.

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