Chili cooking question (for Indian chefs?)

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MikeAqua

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#1708652 24-Jan-2017 13:19

nova:

To the OP, might be worth considering the lung cancer risk:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cooking-with-gas-raises-risk-of-lung-cancer-1903000.html

Ventilate.

And who fries a steak for 15 minutes? That's long past well done heading for charcoal briquette.

No wonder they detected toxic fumes ... in that study

Mike

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#1708753 24-Jan-2017 14:33

Toxic fumes? Can't be any worse than going out in Auckland traffic surely.

Fred99

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#1708763 24-Jan-2017 15:01

MikeAqua:

nova:

To the OP, might be worth considering the lung cancer risk:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cooking-with-gas-raises-risk-of-lung-cancer-1903000.html

Ventilate.

And who fries a steak for 15 minutes? That's long past well done heading for charcoal briquette.

No wonder they detected toxic fumes ... in that study

There are also a couple of important missed points in that article:

The epidemiological data from Taiwan should have made mention of the mass food adulteration by companies in Taiwan, specifically use of (improperly recycled) cheap waste oil in cooking oils, which had apparently been going on for decades. Use of that oil would have resulted in release of high(er) levels of carcinogens in the air.

Peanut oil is also widely used in Asia/China, and is high in polyunsaturated content (~30%). Oil is also relatively expensive - so is likely to be saved and reused rather than dumped after (one) use.

Use of polyunsaturated oils creates far higher levels of aldehydes than monounsaturated and saturated oils, and as pointed out, the duration at high temps makes a big difference, as shown in this chart (from Telegraph.co.uk):

(Canola isn't on that chart, but it's probably a bit worse than olive oil, sunflower and safflower are available in low and high polyunsaturated forms - and as nominally "natural" plant derived products, they're all subject to variation anyway)

Another reason to be wary of cooking with (highly) polyunsaturated oils is the formation of acrylamide in starchy foods containing asparagine. That includes potatoes.

Batman

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#1708810 24-Jan-2017 15:57

how does that compare to the carcinogens that form from heating AND charring things for example

- coffee (beans)

- steak

- bread/bakery/baking/cake (crust)

- sunday roast

- BBQ

- etc

Fred99

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#1708873 24-Jan-2017 17:09

joker97:

how does that compare to the carcinogens that form from heating AND charring things for example

- coffee (beans)

- steak

- bread/bakery/baking/cake (crust)

- sunday roast

- BBQ

- etc

I don't know what the specific levels are - then that would be relative to consumption, but there's acrylamide in coffee, presumably from the oils in the beans reacting when it's roasted. So then I'd guess it would vary, depending on the beans, how darkly they're roasted etc. Even that's very complicated - then to tie that exposure to epidemiology and concluding whether some action is needed is almost impossible.

IIRC highest exposure to acrylamide was from some baked products (crackers), french fries (shoestring the worst), but it's in bread and baking, biscuits, some cakes etc. IMO with some examples (cake, sweet biscuits) the threat posed by acrylamide is probably dwarfed by the sheer bulk of sugar and fat being consumed in every bite - so moderation for other reasons is a damned good idea.

I don't think there's consensus that the levels are high enough to be a significant public health risk, but at the same time I understand that methods may be possible to reduce levels in food, one using an enzyme to break down asparagine before cooking.

That wouldn't solve the other issue with cooking in old, oxidised polyunsaturated oils.

Personally, I avoid chips, crisps, and take care to cook/bake using mono or saturated fats (I use duck fat for roast potatoes - tastes great). But I have little doubt that high consumption of saturated fat isn't a good thing. I'm not sure that "deep frying" is the enemy either, those roasted fluffy crispy potatoes would be any better than a bucket of maccas fries - and could be worse.

Fried/roasted BBQd meat is another issue with formation of PCS and HCA. That article is pretty reasonable IMO - though I'm not impressed by the suggestion to microwave meat before cooking in the oven or in a pan. Sounds bloody awful to me. The risks from eating processed meat (with nitrites), bacon, salami etc are another and IMO significant issue.

Strong evidence that consuming large quantities of processed meat isn't good, less compelling evidence about red meat in general.

So, we've covered the cause of basically all the most common cancers, cardiovascular disease, most of the things that'll probably kill us in the end - except sitting in the sun drinking a beer - which may also kill you.

Moderation (whatever that may mean) seems sensible. Regularly washing down double-bacon burger and fries with a beer probably isn't too smart, but avoiding those things completely probably not very pleasant.

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#1708923 24-Jan-2017 18:58

Point is, we're all dying. Make sure it's a happy process. Now who brought up this tangent to a food cooking thread! Hhrmph.

geekIT

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#1709277 25-Jan-2017 11:44

Re frying with oils, a lot of recent studies conclude that good quality olive oils are best. However, we tried that option and quickly found a major problem - olive oil seems to have a much lower flash point (ie, can't stand high heat) and rapidly gets hot enough to smoke. It's tetchy.

So we've gone back to good quality Canola oil.

Re Joker97 - "Toxic fumes? Can't be any worse than going out in Auckland traffic surely. "

Yeah, that's why we left Te Atatu and now live in Southland. B****y primitive in many ways, but clean air and real cheap (250k gets a palace) housing.

Well, I should say 'clean air' until I cook my capsaicin-soaked cauliflower :-)

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Fred99

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#1709306 25-Jan-2017 12:21

I think the term is "smoke point" - and from that article linked, there's considerable variation within oils from nominally the same plant source, though most of the figures stated in that table are lacking citation or further information, so IMO shouldn't be relied upon seriously.

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