Online Voting

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#2100792 3-Oct-2018 14:04

Just because something has been done the same way for the last x years does not mean it is the most efficient way to do something its not re inventing the wheel but going from a wooden wagon wheel to full rubber.

Times move ahead and we should too , As was said if banks and ird etc can be secure then why not voting.

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dfnt

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#2100795 3-Oct-2018 14:06

Normally I agree with @sbiddle but I feel you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance.

I worked at Electoral Commission during the last election, during which a large portion of overseas voting was done online. So I'm aware of how it worked, how secure it was, and how it can be made better.

I'm not going to go into detail, nor continue the argument, but I would welcome online voting.

sbiddle

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#2100801 3-Oct-2018 14:11

Mspec:

Times move ahead and we should too , As was said if banks and ird etc can be secure then why not voting.

The issue isn't one of security. It's one of having a full audit trail of the voting process. That's not possible with online voting.

sbiddle

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#2100804 3-Oct-2018 14:14

dfnt:

Normally I agree with @sbiddle but I feel you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance.

I worked at Electoral Commission during the last election, during which a large portion of overseas voting was done online. So I'm aware of how it worked, how secure it was, and how it can be made better.

I'm not going to go into detail, nor continue the argument, but I would welcome online voting.

I'm not sure if downloading your form, getting it witnesssed and then uploading it really counts as online voting. That's really just paper voting, and has the same audio trail that paper voting does.

reven

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#2100805 3-Oct-2018 14:14

sbiddle:

Mspec:

Times move ahead and we should too , As was said if banks and ird etc can be secure then why not voting.

The issue isn't one of security. It's one of having a full audit trail of the voting process. That's not possible with online voting.

this i dont get.. or i misunderstand what you mean by audit trail... because...well its very simple to audit things via computer....

dfnt

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#2100809 3-Oct-2018 14:20

sbiddle:

dfnt:

Normally I agree with @sbiddle but I feel you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance.

I worked at Electoral Commission during the last election, during which a large portion of overseas voting was done online. So I'm aware of how it worked, how secure it was, and how it can be made better.

I'm not going to go into detail, nor continue the argument, but I would welcome online voting.

I'm not sure if downloading your form, getting it witnesssed and then uploading it really counts as online voting. That's really just paper voting, and has the same audio trail that paper voting does.

Which is why I said it could be made better, but its a start at least

yitz

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#2100812 3-Oct-2018 14:23

reven:
this i dont get.. or i misunderstand what you mean by audit trail... because...well its very simple to audit things via computer....

I'm guessing if the trail ends at a botnet... then there would not be much yo could do if it was not caught earlier on.

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JaseNZ

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#2100813 3-Oct-2018 14:25

sbiddle:

Mspec:

Times move ahead and we should too , As was said if banks and ird etc can be secure then why not voting.

The issue isn't one of security. It's one of having a full audit trail of the voting process. That's not possible with online voting.

I am not sure what you mean by audit trail , If a key was sent to a person who used that to vote etc ?? , I guess privacy issues come into play then.

Why does it have to be anonymous who you vote for ie if you were sent a key as I mentioned above.

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OldGeek

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#2100840 3-Oct-2018 15:01

sbiddle:

Dumbest idea ever... And that's before we even look at the security aspect (which I don't think it an issue).

Why do we need it? it goes against many of the principles of a voting system.

Take a look here:

http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Trust%20and%20participation%20in%20government/voter-turnout.aspx

To summarize: voter turnout is dropping and we do not compare well with other countries.

One of the barriers to voting is that voters that are young enough to have no recollection of pre-internet times, simply dont identify with the need to go to polling booths or use a postal vote. Voting via smartphone or PC is an extention of a very familiar utility function.

I share concerns about security and identity - but we need to recognise that going to a polling booth and posting a vote is for many either too unfamiliar (because they dont do this for any other function) or simply too much effort for no perceived value.

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Delphinus

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#2100846 3-Oct-2018 15:12

OldGeek:

One of the barriers to voting is that voters that are young enough to have no recollection of pre-internet times, simply dont identify with the need to go to polling booths or use a postal vote. Voting via smartphone or PC is an extention of a very familiar utility function.

I share concerns about security and identity - but we need to recognise that going to a polling booth and posting a vote is for many either too unfamiliar (because they dont do this for any other function) or simply too much effort for no perceived value.

Not to mention facts like if you're studying somewhere (eg Wellington), you might be registered elsewhere (eg parents house in Auckland) so a) your voting papers get sent to Auckland and b) you have less interest in Auckland local body elections when you spend most of your time in Wellington.

littlehead

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#2100853 3-Oct-2018 15:23

Looking only at voter turnout, everyone is assuming that online voting would increase voter turnout. However this wasn't the case with the "digital first" online census where we actually had a drop in responses of 4.5%, compared to the paper only census in 2013. Doing the census online was "easier" and yet we still had a decrease in turnout.

Why is there the assumption that online voting would increase turnout, especially at the local government level? Is there actually evidence for this? I have just read through the international parts of the Online Voting in New Zealand Feasibility and options for local elections DIA report, and in no cases did voter turnout increase. That report explicitly states about New Zealand "Overseas experience suggests that New Zealand cannot rely on online voting to boost voter turnout. "

Varkk

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#2100854 3-Oct-2018 15:27

The digital census was a mistake. I don't think anyone in our neighbourhood received the code. It wasn't until about a week after census day they arrived but only for those of us who chased them.

Most digital security experts agree that online voting is going to be too hard to secure to the same level we expect for our voting systems.

Journeyman

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#2100861 3-Oct-2018 15:38

Varkk:

The digital census was a mistake. I don't think anyone in our neighbourhood received the code. It wasn't until about a week after census day they arrived but only for those of us who chased them.

Most digital security experts agree that online voting is going to be too hard to secure to the same level we expect for our voting systems.

Exactly. The way the online Census was bungled doesn't give me much hope for e-voting.

tdgeek

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#2101014 3-Oct-2018 19:54

I can't see an issue. If its ok for banking and everything else, its ok for a tickbox. You would want a MYIRD tyre of verification. If the Govt made a one time login that covers IRD, Oranga Tamariki, and every other relevant Govt Dept, even if it meant visiting the PO to display photo ID, then its set.

tdgeek

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#2101015 3-Oct-2018 19:54

Varkk:

The digital census was a mistake. I don't think anyone in our neighbourhood received the code. It wasn't until about a week after census day they arrived but only for those of us who chased them.

Most digital security experts agree that online voting is going to be too hard to secure to the same level we expect for our voting systems.

So I need to cancel my online banking now?

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