Coffee machine recommendation - boiler not thermoblock

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#2154658 5-Jan-2019 00:02

If you do get a 2nd Rancilio definitely consider a PID upgrade. Night and day on my machine for consistency and quality of shot.

Fred99

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#2154676 5-Jan-2019 07:57

If you're going to import one, then go direct from Europe - not ex Aus. Apartmento list price is about 1000 Euro, ex VAT. Air freight through espressocoffeeshop.com was cheap when I imported a machine. Talk to them online for a discount code. IIRC they gave me E100 discount. Landed price incl GST was about 2/3 NZ retail. No practical warranty and maybe local support would be grouchy, but if you service the machine yourself, no problems. They'll probably supply with a UK plug and nz/au adapter which is ugly, but a 10 minute job to change.
If it's an E61, you're probably not stuck with official service agent - any technician should be able to service it, parts are easy to find.

ermat

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#2154684 5-Jan-2019 08:25

Fred99: If you're going to import one, then go direct from Europe - not ex Aus. Apartmento list price is about 1000 Euro, ex VAT. Air freight through espressocoffeeshop.com was cheap when I imported a machine. Talk to them online for a discount code. IIRC they gave me E100 discount. Landed price incl GST was about 2/3 NZ retail. No practical warranty and maybe local support would be grouchy, but if you service the machine yourself, no problems. They'll probably supply with a UK plug and nz/au adapter which is ugly, but a 10 minute job to change.
If it's an E61, you're probably not stuck with official service agent - any technician should tbe able to service it, parts are easy to find.

Thanks, what are your thoughts on PID machines.

dafman

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#2212277 7-Apr-2019 13:11

By way of update, we decided to spend the extra $ and bought the Rocket Apartmento over the Rancilio Silvia.

Expensive initial outlay, but I absolutely love the coffee from this machine and the ritual of preparing my daily brew. I'm noticing that many cafes fall short of what we now get at home. We have it on a timer so that it switches on automatically in the morning and I love the fact that you can keep in on throughout the day.

davidcole

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#2212380 7-Apr-2019 18:16

dafman:
By way of update, we decided to spend the extra $ and bought the Rocket Apartmento over the Rancilio Silvia.

Expensive initial outlay, but I absolutely love the coffee from this machine and the ritual of preparing my daily brew. I'm noticing that many cafes fall short of what we now get at home. We have it on a timer so that it switches on automatically in the morning and I love the fact that you can keep in on throughout the day.

And if you work it out, you’ve probably almost already paid for it in savings.

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#2212398 7-Apr-2019 19:16

When My Rancilio Silvia eventually dies it will be replaced with a Rocket Apartmento. However the Silvia is now 12 yrs old, spent time on 3 continents and had its electrical plug change from an ANZ plug to UK plug back to an ANZ plug in that time. The chassis is starting to rust but everything inside is tip-top. In that time I've also installed a PID so the temparature control has improved dramatically.

If only it would die so I could justify to the wife that we needed to upgrade.

dafman

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#2212458 7-Apr-2019 20:26

We've still using a Rancilio alongside the Apartmento, so here's my thoughts on both machines.

The Rancilio is a great machine. I love it, which is why I contemplated getting a second Silvio. But now I have it, the Apartmento is just that much better.

We use the same beans on both machines and the Apartmento brew is just a little more fuller and richer than the Silvio. Not a great difference, but it is there.

Having the Apartmento permanently on and ready to go all day is just great. I have two coffees a day and its great to be able to rock up to the machine at any time and I'm good to go.

And not waiting for steam. Now I find it a little frustrating waiting for the Silvio to heat up from brew to steam. And the Apartmento produces better microfilm that the Silvio.

And the Apartmento is just a little more fun to use, I love the ritual. I always ask people with Nespresso why they didn't buy a proper coffee machine. The answer is pretty much always that they can't be bothered with the prep, they just want an instant coffee. They don't know what they are missing.

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davidcole

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#2212514 8-Apr-2019 06:28

dafman: And the Apartmento is just a little more fun to use, I love the ritual. I always ask people with Nespresso why they didn't buy a proper coffee machine. The answer is pretty much always that they can't be bothered with the prep, they just want an instant coffee. They don't know what they are missing.

Nespresso has its place. It probably won’t be as good as you can get with your apartmento, But it will also never pour a miss shot. Ie the beans are a little old, you didn’t tamp properly, you tamped too hard or any ot the other reason that you get a substandard pull. Nespressos are really consistent and there’s a lot less cleanup. So they do have a use. But if you enjoy the ritual and the art of pulling a great shot then a manual manchine is the only way to go.

ermat

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#2212515 8-Apr-2019 06:38

Personally the difference between nespresso and real coffee made properly is not on the same planet .

langi27

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#2212551 8-Apr-2019 08:23

Have you looked at Lelit brand. Ive got the older model of this. Its amazing, bang on budget as well. Gets very good reviews.

https://www.espresso.co.nz/home-coffee-machines/lelit-pl42emi-espresso-machine-with-built-in-burr-grinder/

mdf

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#2212777 8-Apr-2019 12:42

I'm just starting out on home espresso machines. Currently I get my fix via french press, stovetop or siphon. French press is my go to since it is easy. I'd like to try espresso at home, but am worried that once the novelty wears off, the espresso machine will end up next to the stovetop and siphon in a cupboard somewhere since I can't be bothered anymore.

Can anyone recommend a machine for beginners? Should I start with a <$1000 Breville from Briscoes or similar, or am I just setting myself up for disappointment? With french press as a baseline, will I notice much of a difference between a $750, $1500 and $3000 machine?

jonathan18

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#2212808 8-Apr-2019 13:15

@mdf: A risky question, given where coffee-related threads here on GZ usually end up! (It's there a bit already, with the 'nespresso vs espresso' argument being raised earlier.)

As such, I am running the gauntlet for suggesting you don't need to go expensive and European to produce a decent espresso.

I suggest the Sunbeam Mini Espresso (https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?q=sunb&p=4462590). Ostensibly a RRP of $500sh, you can easily pick it up for around half that - eg JB Hifi for $239.

I bought one so I can make myself coffee at work; it was to replace some DeLonghi nastiness from Briscoes, and I was after something totally affordable but decent enough. I was really surprised at the quality of the coffee it makes. I got one soon after it was released, but I see Consumer has since tested it and also rates it highly. I think it would be hard to find a machine that can produce such a decent coffee for anything near that price.

Of course, it's more basic than other more expensive models - eg single thermoblock, so you can't heat milk and make coffee at the same time, but this isn't a big issue given the price and the quality of what it produces. Also, many may not rate anything that uses a thermoblock, but given this is your first machine I'd recommend dipping your toe in with a machine that is totally affordable but still produces decent coffee. If you get bitten by the bug you can always upgrade later (and a spare machine is always useful - as it's relatively compact, we take mine on holiday rather than the bigger machine at home!), but if not you've not had to spend much...

davidcole

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#2212816 8-Apr-2019 13:28

jonathan18:

@mdf: A risky question, given where coffee-related threads here on GZ usually end up! (It's there a bit already, with the 'nespresso vs espresso' argument being raised earlier.)

As such, I am running the gauntlet for suggesting you don't need to go expensive and European to produce a decent espresso.

I suggest the Sunbeam Mini Espresso (https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?q=sunb&p=4462590). Ostensibly a RRP of $500sh, you can easily pick it up for around half that - eg JB Hifi for $239.

I bought one so I can make myself coffee at work; it was to replace some DeLonghi nastiness from Briscoes, and I was after something totally affordable but decent enough. I was really surprised at the quality of the coffee it makes. I got one soon after it was released, but I see Consumer has since tested it and also rates it highly. I think it would be hard to find a machine that can produce such a decent coffee for anything near that price.

Of course, it's more basic than other more expensive models - eg single thermoblock, so you can't heat milk and make coffee at the same time, but this isn't a big issue given the price and the quality of what it produces. Also, many may not rate anything that uses a thermoblock, but given this is your first machine I'd recommend dipping your toe in with a machine that is totally affordable but still produces decent coffee. If you get bitten by the bug you can always upgrade later (and a spare machine is always useful - as it's relatively compact, we take mine on holiday rather than the bigger machine at home!), but if not you've not had to spend much...

Pretty much agree with this approach....since being given a cheap $99 machine for my wedding, killing that and getting annoyed with it after about 6 months...but enjoying the process and purchasing a ex cafe machine for $100 at an auction that I fiddled with till I broke it (who knew it didn't have a pump and needed water pressure), selling it for $700, buying a $1000 machine with a build in grinder, essentially like the thermoblock being recommended here, using that for 5 - 7 years before parts became an issue, them jumping up to a rocket.

I know there are a few people that jump in whole hog to the best.....but I don't know if you end up appreciating it as much as if you slowly upgrade. But that's just IMO

jonathan18

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#2213353 9-Apr-2019 09:01

jonathan18:

I bought one so I can make myself coffee at work; it was to replace some DeLonghi nastiness from Briscoes, and I was after something totally affordable but decent enough.

To follow up from this - in an email this morning, Briscoes is advertising such a machine at an apparently bargain price - http://www.briscoes.co.nz/kitchen/appliances/coffee-machines/1076813/Delonghi-Pump-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-ECP3531ST.html

This is a variation of the machine I initially bought (and returned), and is one to run away from as fast as you can!

In retrospect, I should have been put off by the mention of a 'cappuccino system'. (It's like it was designed for 1990.) Any of these type of DeLonghis should be avoided, especially if you every plan to use it to 'froth' (and that's what you'll get from these machines!) milk. It may be another $100 for the Sunbeam mentioned earlier, but I reckon that will make coffee of a similar quality to any of the mainstream manual/semi auto machines at a price point many times higher.

sen8or

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#2214127 10-Apr-2019 09:04

With a cheaper machine, the things you want to look for -

Normal steam arm. Forget about froth enhancers or turbo froth attachments etc, they simply create bubbles, not microfoam. A steam wand should simply have one (or more) small holes in the bottom of the wand which is submerged just below the surface of the milk.

Normal baskets. Many of the cheaper machines use pressurised baskets in the group handle. These have heaps of holes on one side, but underneath, there is only 1 or 2, artificially creating the espresso extraction pressure. These are intended to be used for people who buy supermarket coffee or who don't grind fresh beans on demand where stale coffee simply does not create the crema on an espresso shot. I find they end up stweing the espresso shot giving it a weird taste, plus they are all but impossible to clean and coffee oils etc will build up between the layers, fungus in your coffee anyone? Have a look at both sides of the filter basket, they should have the same number of holes. This is more important than if its a commercial sized basket (58mm) or small (53mm), you can make good shots from either size.

Steam pressure is not going to be strong, so don't count on doing large 1l pitchers of milk for multiple drinks at a time. Use a small jug (300 - 500ml) and make 1 drink at a time. It will still likely take a minute or so to get the milk up to temp (+/- 65deg).

The two most important factors are the grinder and the freshness of the coffee beans. For the grinder something like a Sunbeam EM0480 or Breville Dose Grinder as a minimum, but a burr grinder is a must, not a whirly blade. For fresh beans, direct from a roastery or cafe if they have a roasted on date, most will start to sell beans about 1 week post roast, which is about right. Whole beans stay fresh for +/- 4 weeks, so if you buy small amounts (about a week or 2 worth) at a time, and store them in an airtight container in a cupboard, that'll be about right.

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