Thanks for all the constructive (except one) advise, this thread was doing so well.  

So I procrastinated for a while and ended up with a Breville Dynamic Duo ($1500 from Briscoes).   More than happy with its performance, a bit noisier than I would like but the grinder is a step up from my old one.  It did make a decent enough coffee out the box with grinder and machine on defaults, but configuration is easy and (more than ) a few shots later I am constantly pulling coffee better than many cafes serve me. 

Just to resurrect this thread for a bit: 

My trusty Breville bit the big one in the weekend and I called a repairer who advised against having it repaired, due to its age and model type. 

It's outlived its intended life, so I am pretty happy with the fact that I got good value out of it. 

My research led me down a rabbit hole and on my budget I ended up getting the following machine on special for $695.00

https://www.delonghi.com/en-nz/ec9155-mb-la-specialista-arte-manual-espresso-maker/p/EC9155.MB

Overall, it appears to be similar to my Breville that I have enjoyed so much, but with a couple of minor improvements, such as two thermoblocks, so you can extract coffee and foam milk with minimal delays and a couple of other minor upgrades, but in the (roughly) same footprint and in a similar and familiar style. 

I wasn't going to pay $1199 for a direct replacement for a machine I only paid $600 for several years ago. 

I'm yet to receive it but am looking forward to the first coffee from it. 

Are you sure it has two thermoblocks and can steam and extract at the same time, the marketing blurb hides it well if it does. Best I can find on that page is "1 Thermoblock + 1 heating system"  whatever that means. 

Unfortunately I have had bad experiences with that brand, for me personally it now suffers from the perception bias of "Over priced, average quality, brand taxed product lineup" so it starts on the back foot when I am looking for things.  

Hoping to get some similar guidance about what to look for in an espresso machine upgrade.

We've got a Sunbeam Mini Barista thanks to a previous Geekzone recommendation - also got the single wall filter baskets and a decent grinder, again thanks to GZ recommendations. Been super impressed with this little machine but it has had a pretty hard life - 3 or 4 cups daily for the last two years, I don't think I've cleaned it once, and (probably unsurprisingly) has started to develop issues. The steam wand leaks when pulling a shot, and now I'm also starting to get leaks around the portafilter basket. Time for a new machine.

It does seem that upgrades comes with a pretty steep price curve. From what I can tell, each jump seems to just about double in price. I guess I'm happy to spend the money if I am genuinely getting something better, but will need some pretty compelling arguments to convince the the financial comptroller that a big jump is worthwhile. And she almost certainly won't believe me if I claim "this will be a machine for life".

• circa $250: replacement Sunbeam Mini Barista. I know it works well and already have the filter baskets etc.
• circa $500-$1000: all the "Briscoes Brand" options (Sunbeam, Breville, DeLonghi) seem to basically be the Mini Barista (thermoblock + portafilter + steam wand) + an inbuilt grinder (which I don't need). Or am I missing something important?
• circa $500: Acaso Basic. Basic European (Spanish) equivalent of the Mini Barista. Though again, I may be missing something important, and am a bit wary of assuming European = Always Better.
• circa $1000: Acaso Dream Machine. Certainly a fancier looking European machine, but fundamentally still seems to be the basic thermoblock + portafilter + steam wand?
• also circa $1000: Gaggia Classic. Cheapest boiler cf thermoblock (I think) option I could find.
• circa $1500: Rancilio Silvia or Lelit Victoria. Lowest price point for a name brand that I think I have heard of.
• circa $3000: Rocket Apartamento. While I am sure I would be stoked with this one, not sure I can justify a $300 --> $3,000 leap.

Flat white is my drink of choice. I'm pretty happy with the taste and quality I get out of the Mini Barista with freshly ground beans. I sometimes still stuff things up (too heavy a tamp, don't get the milk right etc.) but generally put that down to user error. The only real limitation I've found with the Mini is that it is slow and when we have guests it does take a while to make everyone a coffee. But that is not that often in these Uncertain Times and so won't be enough of a justification.

Keen for feedback on pros and cons at each price point. Part of me is tempted just to get another Mini as a replacement, while another really wants something better (though that is pretty much my default setting on any purchase).

If you could address your compelling justifications for an expensive upgrade to "Mrs MDF, Financial Comptroller MDF Enterprises, c/- Geekzone..." 

I had an Ascaso Duo for a short time, really wasn't impressed, weak steam pressure just never got decent milk.

If you can afford / justify it, I'd consider going the Rancilio Silvia - Proper single boiler machine using commercial quality parts, design and quality has proven the test of time. You will still get the issue if you are making more than a few drinks in a row (pull shot, press button to heat boiler to steam temp, steam milk, put back to non steam mode, run blank shot for cooling flush, rinse and repeat for each drink, although you could run 2 shots back to back and steam milk for both). Whilst maybe not "for life", it should certainly see you for a good number of years (until you decide a HX / Dual Boiler machine is "essential").

The single biggest impacts on coffee at home - freshness of the beans and quality grind. The thermoblock machines are much of a muchness and the skill of the person using the machine will almost always have more impact over the quality of the drink than whether its a $500 or $5000 machine. 

The Rocket machine I have is now 10 years old. 

We brew probably 5 double shots a day x 365 x 10 = 18,250 shots.

Allowing for wastage, then 50 double shots per kg beans @ $40/kg = $14,600 coffee beans.

2/3 would include milk, say 150ml = 1800 litres milk = $3,060

Maintenance cost on machine <$50 / year = $500
(One boiler element - DIY replace, one group seal per year, one front panel light, espresso cleaner, sundries)

18,250 takeaway coffees @ $4 = $73,000
18250 home brewed coffees = ~ $18,000

Capital expenditure budget =  $55,000

While the Sunbeam Mini Barista is on its last legs, the leak around the portafilter could just be the $20 seal easily replaced by you. 2 years at 3-4 cups its done well.  

One question you really need to answer is Boiler of Thermoblock. Boiler - in theory and especially in the past, better temperature stability while extracting and steaming, meaning better coffee and also more steam (Faster steaming). Thermoblocks are faster warm up (<5 minutes vs (from what I can tell) 30 minutes for a boiler and also lower electricity use, but normally not as strong steam.  With modern electronics the temperature stability of thermoblock machines is pretty close to boilers and variations the barrister adds probably accounts for the most variation in the coffee.  Boilers are known to be able to do shot after shot after shot better then thermoblocks, important for a cafe, but for home use cold - two or three shots is what counts for most people, so despite slower steaming a thermoblock is still faster.  (You can tell I am a fan of thermoblock for home use)  


Given your a milk drinker, a dual boiler/thermoblock model will mean less time waiting between extracting and steaming, and when the crowds come around, makes a huge difference. The Breville BE920  (Refurbished one here www.applianceoutlet-tga.co.nz/Product/987.html $899) would be my pick. You can still get the  Sunbeam EM7000 (Gary Anderson Appliances < $1000) is a good dual thermoblock machine at a reasonable price.  If you budget stretches to it, the Sunbeam PU8000 Sunbeam Torino Espresso Machine and Grinder. SALE - Gary Anderson looks like a stunning machine (I did not get this one only because it is physically too high to fit on my bench) 

If you stick with a single boiler/thermoblock, you have a much larger range of options for lower prices. I think you would definitely benefit from having a pressure gauge, lacking on the entry level prosumer europeans.  

Given your past history of neglecting your coffee machine, I do not recommend a $3000 european machine unless you are certain of changing your habits.  If you want to continue as you were, then stick with $300 machines. Do at least try to clean and descale it occasionally. (Cleaning removes coffee oils with affects taste, descaling removes scale which stuffs machines) 

To me the Aseco's are single thermoblocks, are the same as the "500-$1000 Briscoes Brands", but probably have a 'European made' tax (how do you tell? Coffee machine snobbery is a real thing).   

I've owned a Rancilio Silvia now for ~14 years. It has been a great machine, however I usually don't recommend it to others who are looking to upgrade from a Briscoes brand Thermoblock machine. The reason for that is that I'm a coffee enthusiast so I'm prepared to put up with its foibles and put in the time and effort required to make a great coffee. Most people coming from a Breville/Sunbeam thermoblock machine simply wouldn't put up with it.

I really see the $1,000 to $1,500 price range, typically dominated by Rancilio and Gaggia, with their single boiler machines a bit of a no-mans land these days. They are arguably better machines than the Breville/Sunbeams but in order to make a better coffee you have to take the time to appreciate them and put in the effort to learn what makes a good espresso shot. They primarily fall short on temperature stability and the ability to pull a shot, steam milk and do this repeatedly for multiple coffees. On the topic of temperature stability, it wasn't until I installed a PID on my Silvia that I truly became happy with the quality and consistency of espresso. I've also played around with different after market shower screens, and recalibrating the group head pressure by adjusting the on board pressure regulator. The result is I now get a great quality shot but hw many people are going o go to that amount of effort? I've had friends who have given up and gone back to their automatics. And even after all of that, I still can't over come the inability to pull a shot and steam and produce multiple coffees quickly.

My advice, skip the $1,000 to $1,500 range of single boilers. Either stay with the Breville/Sunbeam appliances or find the justification to just jump straight to an HX machine like a Rocket.

I'm waiting for my Silvia to die to move to an HX machine. However they are very robust so its showing no signs of impending death any time soon.

nzmatt:

 

Are you sure it has two thermoblocks and can steam and extract at the same time, the marketing blurb hides it well if it does. Best I can find on that page is "1 Thermoblock + 1 heating system"  whatever that means. 

Unfortunately I have had bad experiences with that brand, for me personally it now suffers from the perception bias of "Over priced, average quality, brand taxed product lineup" so it starts on the back foot when I am looking for things.  

You're right - one Thermoblock and one "heating system": Two heating systems ensure coffee and milk can be prepared one after the other with no waiting time between.

Doesn't quite say preparing coffee and milk at the same time. 

With that said, by Breville was never able to do both at the same time, so I'll be getting largely like-for-like. 

Fred99:

 

The Rocket machine I have is now 10 years old. 

 

We brew probably 5 double shots a day x 365 x 10 = 18,250 shots.

 

Allowing for wastage, then 50 double shots per kg beans @ $40/kg = $14,600 coffee beans.

 

2/3 would include milk, say 150ml = 1800 litres milk = $3,060

 

Maintenance cost on machine <$50 / year = $500
(One boiler element - DIY replace, one group seal per year, one front panel light, espresso cleaner, sundries)

 

 

 

18,250 takeaway coffees @ $4 = $73,000
18250 home brewed coffees = ~ $18,000

 

Capital expenditure budget =  $55,000

 

 

 

I'm with Fred99.   Rocket here as well, coming up on 10 years old.  Lockdowns - who cares still have coffee, better result (generally) than most cafes, and while it cost $3k to buy ($4 with a decent grinder), it was probably "paid for" in 2-3 years in not buying takeawy coffees.

The 'paid for' argument is a great way to justify buying a more expensive machine if you need an excuse, then by all means use it.  But if $3k is paid for in 2-3 years, $1k must be paid for in 8-12 months.  

@Senecio nailed it.  If you like drinking decent coffee, a $1k Sunbeam or Breville will do a good job. If your aim is to master the art of making (and I presume drinking)  superb coffee, then you probably need to reach a bit higher up the price bracket. 

nzmatt:

 

The 'paid for' argument is a great way to justify buying a more expensive machine if you need an excuse, then by all means use it.  But if $3k is paid for in 2-3 years, $1k must be paid for in 8-12 months.  

@Senecio nailed it.  If you like drinking decent coffee, a $1k Sunbeam or Breville will do a good job. If your aim is to master the art of making (and I presume drinking)  superb coffee, then you probably need to reach a bit higher up the price bracket. 

 

Having owned a 1k machine (it might have been just that one), the difference with those and the higher end e61 group head machines is the number of parts, serviceability and length of time they stay in the market......if a $1000 breville is replaced with a new model after 2 years, how many parts on the electronics side are likely to exist.   Rockets can potentially end up in the same boat, but 2 of us have had our machines for 10ish years and are still happily getting parts to them.

That's the only reason I use that payback  metaphor.  It could apply to cheaper machines, but then the parts and servicing might become an issue.

nzmatt:

 

You can still get the  Sunbeam EM7000 (Gary Anderson Appliances < $1000) is a good dual thermoblock machine at a reasonable price. 

 

Got this one about 7 years ago and haven't really had anything go wrong, granted it typically only does two (black) per day on weekdays, but weekend milk variants seem well received. Bits and pieces have always been easy enough to get from needapart, only really been service items nothing has failed. If you're the repair and parts kind person.

If coming along and saying this proves to be a curse, then that PU8000 Torino looks nice!

nzmatt:

 

If you stick with a single boiler/thermoblock, you have a much larger range of options for lower prices. I think you would definitely benefit from having a pressure gauge, lacking on the entry level prosumer europeans.  

Given your past history of neglecting your coffee machine, I do not recommend a $3000 european machine unless you are certain of changing your habits.  If you want to continue as you were, then stick with $300 machines. Do at least try to clean and descale it occasionally. (Cleaning removes coffee oils with affects taste, descaling removes scale which stuffs machines) 

To me the Aseco's are single thermoblocks, are the same as the "500-$1000 Briscoes Brands", but probably have a 'European made' tax (how do you tell? Coffee machine snobbery is a real thing).   

I have an Ascaso Dream ( ~$1k).

Yes, it's pretty basic. So basic that it doesn't have a timer, unlike the $200 Breville it replaced. Which means you need to come up with some kind of scheme to monitor pumping time, if you want some kind of consistency.

I don't drink milk so I don't care about steaming but Mrs P sometimes uses that function. Yes, if she does, the temperature climbs and needs to be brought down afterwards - I run water through on 'coffee' mode rather than wait 60 minutes.

After one year, it needed proper cleaning of the basket etc. I've been reading the thread with tips for home brewed cleaning agents with interest.

I plan to mod it with a timer/counter to make it easier to use.

Your statement about care habits resonates - Mrs P sometimes leaves grounds in the machine (Arrggh!) and seldom flushes after use (Come on!!) - it doesn't matter to her if it is a Breville or a Rocket.