Oven failure - advice wanted

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Bung

6477 posts

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#2743419 12-Jul-2021 20:08

It may be the lack of suitable real estate on new stoves. The Westinghouse models with upstands behind the hob still have a socket either side.

ratsun81

508 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2743428 12-Jul-2021 20:29

Its more than likely going be more than a 16A fuse and in all likelyhood will be a 30A Fuse. In my setup the hob and wall mount hook into the same 30A.

The question you have to ask yourself is: how much is it worth to risk my living space for either repair/replace.

I had a kettle let go a few years ago, popped a circuit and potentially damaged other appliances. Did i hesitate to call in a sparky to check out my place and the appliance. Nope.

snnet

1410 posts

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#2743433 12-Jul-2021 20:54

Cooling fan may have failed, thermostat may have failed causing element to reach more likely 320 degrees,(which could have also been the root cause for the element failing) melting wires around the casing which would cause the breaker to trip

duckDecoy

896 posts

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#2743434 12-Jul-2021 21:00

Im going to listen to the comments and decommission the oven and get a repair person in to take a look. Thanks for the advice

tripper1000

1617 posts

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#2743693 13-Jul-2021 15:35

Done forget to isolate the power before starting the job.

1. Is it likely that an element would fail just 6 months after new? I believe it was a genuine part.

Their lives can be shortened by manufacturing defects, rough handling, rough installation or running them long or running them hard (250 deg !!??). The most likely time for something to fail is very soon after manufacture/repair, and when it is old.

2. When an element goes does it make a loud "whump" sound? Or would this indicate its probably something else.

Yes sometimes, and other times no. Sometimes they die quietly (the first failure you had?) or sometimes they explode like a firework. When they go like a firework the shower of sparks often doesn't end until the CB/Fuse blows.

The symptoms you describe (noise and circuit breaker popping) fit with an element exploding (the fan shroud, oven door and kitchen wall would have hidden the majority of the fireworks display) however those symptoms are not exclusive to elements blowing, so while element is the most likely scenario, it isn't the only possible cause.

3. Is it possible for me to test if the element has failed? I don't own a multi-meter but i'd happily buy one if that was needed because I have borrowed on a couple of times lately. I wouldn't want to buy a replacement element only to have it not be the problem.

TBH a DMM will be easiest and fastest and least invasive. As someone said above you should get a continuity of 20-50 ohms (zero is a fail and O.L is a fail). But if you don't have one, other ways to diagnose is a visual/odour inspection. If the element has exploded like a firework, it will have a small hole blown in the side of it, and probably blast marks on the fan shroud. While you are in there, go over the wiring and control area looking (and smelling) for burning/soot/blast marks. Blown elements have a no smell for a quiet failure and different smell for an explosive failure to burnt electronics, so just because you can't smell burnt electronics doesn't mean the element is OK.

gregmcc

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#2743762 13-Jul-2021 17:05

tripper1000:

Done forget to isolate the power before starting the job.

3. Is it possible for me to test if the element has failed? I don't own a multi-meter but i'd happily buy one if that was needed because I have borrowed on a couple of times lately. I wouldn't want to buy a replacement element only to have it not be the problem.

TBH a DMM will be easiest and fastest and least invasive. As someone said above you should get a continuity of 20-50 ohms (zero is a fail and O.L is a fail). But if you don't have one, other ways to diagnose is a visual/odour inspection. If the element has exploded like a firework, it will have a small hole blown in the side of it, and probably blast marks on the fan shroud. While you are in there, go over the wiring and control area looking (and smelling) for burning/soot/blast marks. Blown elements have a no smell for a quiet failure and different smell for an explosive failure to burnt electronics, so just because you can't smell burnt electronics doesn't mean the element is OK.

A DMM may not show up an earth fault internal to the element, a insulation resistance tester would be the go to tool.

Fred99

13684 posts

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#2743767 13-Jul-2021 17:28

Bung: It may be the lack of suitable real estate on new stoves. The Westinghouse models with upstands behind the hob still have a socket either side.

Are you sure? I couldn't see them on any freestanding oven on Westinghouse NZ website.

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cshwone

1070 posts

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#2743774 13-Jul-2021 18:06

Fred99:

Bung: It may be the lack of suitable real estate on new stoves. The Westinghouse models with upstands behind the hob still have a socket either side.

Are you sure? I couldn't see them on any freestanding oven on Westinghouse NZ website.

https://www.newbolds.co.nz/product/1657541

Easy reach rear controls
High performance cooktops
In-built power points
Class leading capacity
Durable enamel surfaces
Easy-clean oven and surface

They are pretty standard on stoves of this type and other manufacturers such as Haier (F&P) also have them.

Fred99

13684 posts

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#2743777 13-Jul-2021 18:43

cshwone:

https://www.newbolds.co.nz/product/1657541

Easy reach rear controls
High performance cooktops
In-built power points
Class leading capacity
Durable enamel surfaces
Easy-clean oven and surface

Hmmm....

Is an option and not visible on the photos on the Westinghouse website.

That's problematic if it's hard wired without an RCD as would be pretty normal for a freestanding electric range. But not a huge issue to replace a fuse or breaker with an RCBO on the board (only if you're qualified of course).

I'll see if I can find out more about that. Would be less cost than putting in a new circuit for power points when replacing old ovens with power outlets in rentals.

It seems to be a NZ only model (not Au) - probably not legal in Aus.

tripper1000

1617 posts

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#2744001 14-Jul-2021 11:58

gregmcc: A DMM may not show up an earth fault internal to the element, a insulation resistance tester would be the go to tool.

Except, except except....

The OP requested advice on how to make a diagnosis with limited equipment. He said he can get a MM if it comes to it. He didn't say a HV insulation tester was available.

While what you say is true in theory:

1) OP described "a whumf sound" strongly suggesting a catastrophic failure (short to earth or open circuit) which a DMM will easily pick up.

2) Insulation deterioration tripping an RCD - as established earlier, wall ovens don't normally have an RCD, so OP probably meant a CB tripped, and a CB tripping fault is normally easily detectable by DMM.

If you've worked on stoves & ovens you'll know failures are usually pretty straight forwarded to find. If this is one of the few that are complex, the OP can/should refer to profession help. Our goal here is to help a fellow geek fix it if it's easy, and if its complex, then confident that it is necessary when calling in higher help.

duckDecoy

896 posts

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#2745252 16-Jul-2021 17:45

OUTCOME:

Service man came and showed me the fan element had a nice hole in it, so the element had gone bad. I only replaced it in Oct 2020 so pretty disappointed, I don't know enough about this stuff to know if perhaps my oven or a power surge or something caused it rather than a weakness in the element.

The place I got it from last year said Electrolux only offer a 3 month warranty so I'm out of luck. I am sure I could challenge them on the CGA etc but for $70 I am not going to add stress to my life, conflict isn't my favourite spot to exist in.

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