Fisher & Paykel Not Honouring Consumer Guarantees Act.

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#413533 6-Dec-2010 15:23

sbiddle: The CGA covers the transaction between the buyer and seller. In this case it's the retailer you purchased the unit from, not F&P.

If you haven't already contacted the retailer and have undertaken repairs I wouldn't expect to get any money back from them as the issue needs to be raised with them first.

I believe that is correct. However often the retailer will tell you to contact the manufacturer for any support. eg. If you buy a brand of computer, and you have trouble, they will tell you to phone the 0800 number for support, which is usually the manufacturers, or a support company the subcontract out to. If the retailer refuses to put the matter right, or the retailer goes out of business, then you can then go to the manufacturer, and they would be required to conform to the CGA.

Ragnor

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#413552 6-Dec-2010 15:56

boby55: I always thought the cga wa between buyer and retailer not the manufacture, so f&p are most likely right when saying this.

Nope both, either retailer or manufacturer.

You would normally talk to the retailer first though.

http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/consumer-guarantees-act

oxnsox

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#413563 6-Dec-2010 16:07

Taking another view on this.......

Until both you and the retailer (manufacturer?) knows what the problem is how can either of you be certain its a warranty issue???

wreck90

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#413615 6-Dec-2010 17:07

oxnsox: Taking another view on this.......

Until both you and the retailer (manufacturer?) knows what the problem is how can either of you be certain its a warranty issue???

Promise we did not drop our 150kg(??) 522 litre fridge :)

The icemaker is fully automatic, no manual interaction required. The internal mechanism simply churns out ice until the icebucket is full. There is nothing more to it. There is very little they could accuse us of doing.

There is a principle involved too - F&P are telling me they will not pay repair costs for defects when a product is out of their own warranty period. Then, they go on to say their warranty is fully compliant with the CGA. However, the F&P understanding of the CGA is very different to that of the

Heres a case where someone bought a F&P fridge in 2002, and the retailer was made to pay for a new fridge in 2009!!! This person appears to have named both F&P and the retailer.

http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/sinodisp/nz/cases/NZDispT/2009/34.html?query=fisher%20and%20paykel

I can't see that F&P have a chance.

Dunnersfella

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#413621 6-Dec-2010 17:15

Just remember - previous CGA rulings will have no part in the ruling of your case.
Interesting that both parties deem F&P fridge / freezers to have a 10 year life cycle...

Having seen the quality of the lower end F&P's, I doubt this is the case (certainly made to a budget). But the higher end F&P's should, in theory, last longer.
I'm not sure if that's reality, or just my perception. I guess people can answer that in 10 years time?

I will also add, that speculation on the internet is somewhat trivial, and that you're better to persue the issue in-store, or (as you prefer) with the manufacturer.

alasta

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#413645 6-Dec-2010 18:16

wreck90: There is a principle involved too - F&P are telling me they will not pay repair costs for defects when a product is out of their own warranty period. Then, they go on to say their warranty is fully compliant with the CGA.

They would be correct. The CGA does not mandate a manufacturer or retailer to contract into a certain warranty period at the point of sale, hence why most appliances and devices still sell with only a one year warranty despite there being a reasonable expectation that they should last longer.

What the CGA offers you is the ability to seek compensation and effectively overrule the warranty contracted at the point of sale if the appliance proves to be of unacceptable quality or to have an unacceptable lifespan.

wreck90

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#413820 7-Dec-2010 07:38

alasta:
wreck90: There is a principle involved too - F&P are telling me they will not pay repair costs for defects when a product is out of their own warranty period. Then, they go on to say their warranty is fully compliant with the CGA.

They would be correct. The CGA does not mandate a manufacturer or retailer to contract into a certain warranty period at the point of sale, hence why most appliances and devices still sell with only a one year warranty despite there being a reasonable expectation that they should last longer.

What the CGA offers you is the ability to seek compensation and effectively overrule the warranty contracted at the point of sale if the appliance proves to be of unacceptable quality or to have an unacceptable lifespan.

Yes, but F&P are going further and justifying their decision using the argument that their warranty is equivalent (compliant) to the CGA. So in their view, because I am not covered by the warranty I am also not covered by the CGA.

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Byrned

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#413882 7-Dec-2010 09:47

In my view, this is one of the major problems with the CGA.

From F&P's point of view, they are honoring their obligations, from your point of view they're not. It's up to you to prove that they are not through the disputes tribunal.

webwat

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#413971 7-Dec-2010 11:46

dolsen:
boby55: I always thought the cga wa between buyer and retailer not the manufacture, so f&p are most likely right when saying this.

Nah, it's up to you to choose who to go after...

F&P sold the product to the retailer and therefore covered by Sale Of Goods Act 1908, essentially similar provisions for this kind of issue as far as I know although they offer a manufacturer's warrantee that is passed along to end user, so retailer will claim it from manufacturer anyway. You might have to include the retailer in the process if you go after the manufacturer. Retailer is liable for implied warrantee under CGA, and I suspect the relevant requirement is that it will last a reasonable time when subjected to normal use.

It should be easy to prove it wasn't abused, so everything depends on whether there has been a history of icemakers breaking after warrantee periods. If its happened before then disputes tribunal might look at the history to decide what a reasonable warrantee is, otherwise its something to debate with the tribunal. The CGA warrantee does not cover the whole life of the product, just a reasonable warrantee period for a product of similar lifecycle. I suspect that standard F&P warrantees are pretty clear when you purchase the fridge, so the result will be that if you wanted an extended warrantee then you should have bought one.

Time to find a new industry!

Regs

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#414050 7-Dec-2010 14:30

webwat: It should be easy to prove it wasn't abused, so everything depends on whether there has been a history of icemakers breaking after warrantee periods.

maybe not quite so easy. you may also have to prove that the water supply wasnt at fault. various appliances deterioriate at different speeds depending on the make up of the water that is fed to them.

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alasta

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#414219 7-Dec-2010 19:53

Byrned: In my view, this is one of the major problems with the CGA.

From F&P's point of view, they are honoring their obligations, from your point of view they're not. It's up to you to prove that they are not through the disputes tribunal.

Yes, but what alternative would there be?

A fair justice system requires both parties to have the right to argue their case, hence the Disputes Tribunal is a necessary part of the process. You could argue that the Commerce Commission could strictly define reasonable life expectancy for different types of appliances but this would leave many grey areas, for example a $100 toy camera made in China couldn't reasonably be expected to last as long as a high end SLR camera, so there will always be subjectivity in the application of the legislation.

Having said that, I do think that it would be fair to say that retailers and manufacturers should be more proactive in offering compensation based on case law before the Disputes Tribunal gets involved. It seems like such a waste of everyone's time and resources to force the consumer to lodge a claim with the Disputes Tribunal in cases where it's pretty clear that the ruling will be in favour of the consumer.

Dunnersfella

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#414335 7-Dec-2010 22:33

The CGA wording is vague in places - so the results can never be pre-determined prior to the Disputes Tribunal. What IS wrong, is that both sides often can't legitimately put a decent amount of effort into forming their cases, meaning they do not pursue their argument to the best of their ability.

webwat

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#414370 7-Dec-2010 23:51

Since F&P say their warrantee is CGA compliant, they probably mean that they offer a warrantee as good or better than what you would claim through the CGA without any other warrantee. If 1 year warrantees are common in the whiteware market then your only chance of getting compensation is to argue that your icemaker's robustness was not of merchantable quality from the beginning. That would involve proving that its a very common fault.

Good luck, but F&P may or may not cooperate with the tribunal if asked how frequently 3 year old icemakers break. You may be able to show which part of it broke and get an expert opinion that its a design fault eg incompatible metals causing corrosion.

Time to find a new industry!

Dunnersfella

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#414373 7-Dec-2010 23:53

Last time we bought whiteware, everything seemed to come with a 2 year warranty.

wreck90

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#414650 8-Dec-2010 14:37

The technician fixed our fridge. . .

The problem is a faulty temperature sensor inside the freezer.

Will see if F&P change their minds.

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