Woooaaahh earthquake 2016-11-14

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Master Geek
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#1673449 18-Nov-2016 10:57

There needs to be multiple solutions, because "not everyone" can/will have access to xyz.

There is no single solutions as the variables are almost infinite. Start with that which will be most accessible, most of the time - then develop more and more coverage as soon as practicable.

Geektastic

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#1673474 18-Nov-2016 11:06

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

Bit negative. If you want a single solution that works for everyone, it doesn't exist

Not everyone has a mobile

Not everyone has a 100% charged mobile all the time

If in these days of earthquake preparedness a $20 hand held radio isn't an option, fine, dont blame anyone if your not aware of the latest emergency news

Internet isn't much good if its down

In this day and age, I bet more people have mobiles than radios.

Yes, everyone should have radios in their emergency kits. Which will be at home. Where they may not be. But their phones will almost certainly be in their pockets...and if they are not, they probably won't be far from someone who does have a phone.

If you want to get the message out, fast, to a large number of people at once, regardless of the efficiency of their local officials etc, then the mobile network must be about the top method in today's world.

In the recent example, everyone in NZ could have been aware of the events within 5 minutes of the order being given to tell them. It catches tourists and other visitors roaming on NZ networks as well who perhaps do not have radios, come from places where these things do not happen etc etc.

MikeB4

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#1673486 18-Nov-2016 11:19

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

Bit negative. If you want a single solution that works for everyone, it doesn't exist

Not everyone has a mobile

Not everyone has a 100% charged mobile all the time

If in these days of earthquake preparedness a $20 hand held radio isn't an option, fine, dont blame anyone if your not aware of the latest emergency news

Internet isn't much good if its down

In this day and age, I bet more people have mobiles than radios.

Yes, everyone should have radios in their emergency kits. Which will be at home. Where they may not be. But their phones will almost certainly be in their pockets...and if they are not, they probably won't be far from someone who does have a phone.

If you want to get the message out, fast, to a large number of people at once, regardless of the efficiency of their local officials etc, then the mobile network must be about the top method in today's world.

In the recent example, everyone in NZ could have been aware of the events within 5 minutes of the order being given to tell them. It catches tourists and other visitors roaming on NZ networks as well who perhaps do not have radios, come from places where these things do not happen etc etc.

That just reminded me I need to get some small radios (how quaint) for the grab bags and disaster kit.

freitasm

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#1673493 18-Nov-2016 11:28

I spent $350 resupplying our emergency boxes earlier this week with fresh(er) food and other things (including new batteries for the radios and torches, etc). Only need a couple of other things in the boxes before sending back to the garage.

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Sideface

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#1673499 18-Nov-2016 11:30

MikeB4:

<snip>

That just reminded me I need to get some small radios (how quaint) for the grab bags and disaster kit.

I have a dynamo radio with flashlight in my survival kit, available from Kathmandu:

(click to view)

It will work with or without batteries - wind it for two minutes, listen for 20 minutes.

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morrisk

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#1673507 18-Nov-2016 11:42

The system of having a message and warning noise go to all cell phones seems a good one given the wide use of cell phones.

About 2 years ago I was in Korea and was very surprised when my cell phone made a very loud and unknown alarm noise and then there was a text (in Korean) that was translated for me. It was a tornado warning. There were 4 of us in the group I was with and all phones alarmed. Two phones were our NZ ones and two were local phones.

frankv

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#1673515 18-Nov-2016 11:49

From news videos I've seen (Japan, Indian Ocean tsunamis) I think that a tsunami isn't so much a lateral wave as a rapid rising of the sea level. So I would imagine that there would be quite a torrent of water flowing through Wellington Heads (perhaps also across Rongotai?) into the harbour. Any ship/boat in that area would be in serious trouble. But Wellington Harbour's level would rise relatively slowly. Based on that, I'd say that there wouldn't be much of a funneling effect or surge up the Hutt Valley... that would require a rapid increase in water level in the harbour. So, generally speaking anything that's more than 10m vertically above sea level in the Hutt Valley would be safe from a 10m high tsunami. (NB: elevations are usually given above Mean Seal Level... if the tsunami arrived at high tide, during a storm, it might be another 3-4? metres higher). Presumably CD has consulted with hydrodynamics engineers (I'm not one) so would have taken all that into account when drawing up that map, and therefore in deciding where to place the sirens.

Incidentally, 10km from Petone Beach is about the Taita Gorge/Stokes Valley area... i.e. it would encompass all of the valley floor part of Lower Hutt. The yellow on the map seems to reach to about Melling Station? which is about 3.5-4km from the coast.

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tdgeek

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#1673525 18-Nov-2016 12:03

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

As I said earlier, the US has a system that forcibly sends messages and loud tones to every cellphone on all the networks simultaneously. Why can't we adopt that? Clearly the tech already exists.

As to radio, many people do not have radios - they use the internet these days rather than FM or AM (kids today probably barely even know it exists outside the internet!) and many places in NZ have lousy reception, especially on FM. Here at our house in Martinborough for example, RNZ is virtually unlistenable on FM.

Bit negative. If you want a single solution that works for everyone, it doesn't exist

Not everyone has a mobile

Not everyone has a 100% charged mobile all the time

If in these days of earthquake preparedness a $20 hand held radio isn't an option, fine, dont blame anyone if your not aware of the latest emergency news

Internet isn't much good if its down

In this day and age, I bet more people have mobiles than radios.

Yes, everyone should have radios in their emergency kits. Which will be at home. Where they may not be. But their phones will almost certainly be in their pockets...and if they are not, they probably won't be far from someone who does have a phone.

If you want to get the message out, fast, to a large number of people at once, regardless of the efficiency of their local officials etc, then the mobile network must be about the top method in today's world.

In the recent example, everyone in NZ could have been aware of the events within 5 minutes of the order being given to tell them. It catches tourists and other visitors roaming on NZ networks as well who perhaps do not have radios, come from places where these things do not happen etc etc.

There is no single solution so you cover as many as you can. Everyone having a radio can happen its their choice. Mobile is fine if its with you, if the charge dosnt run out, if the network is up, all variables. The two bolded contradict. More have mobiles but not everyone. End of the day, provide as many easy options as possible, then you have many subsets that overlap, to ideally 100% cover the superset

Geektastic

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#1673533 18-Nov-2016 12:16

Sideface:

MikeB4:

<snip>

That just reminded me I need to get some small radios (how quaint) for the grab bags and disaster kit.

I have a dynamo radio with flashlight in my survival kit, available from Kathmandu:

(click to view)

It will work with or without batteries - wind it for two minutes, listen for 20 minutes.

Yes, an inventor called Trevor Bayliss made brilliant ones that were made in Africa where they have unreliable power. Used to have one in my bathroom that had solar panels on top as well as the clockwork bit. Disappeared when I moved here..!

mdf

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#1673534 18-Nov-2016 12:16

tdgeek:

There is no single solution so you cover as many as you can. Everyone having a radio can happen its their choice. Mobile is fine if its with you, if the charge dosnt run out, if the network is up, all variables. The two bolded contradict. More have mobiles but not everyone. End of the day, provide as many easy options as possible, then you have many subsets that overlap, to ideally 100% cover the superset

I totally agree with the multi solution approach.

However I'd add if something is to be done, it be done as fast as possible. If an emergency warning app and/or 111 radio frequency were announced today, I'd guess you'd get massive uptake. If it takes 18 months of procurement and development, they will have lost all momentum and is will go into the "I must get around to that" category. I appreciate today isn't practical, but soon would be good.

Pumpedd

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#1673538 18-Nov-2016 12:19

I live at Raumati Beach a stones throw from the sea and I heard large volumes of traffic immediately after the quake as residents fled to higher ground. As for me I hopelessly tried to find a radio station that was broadcasting relevant details about what to do. The commercial stations were clearly all running on remote and all I could find was talk back..which was fine but it still gave conflicting stories as what to do. (This was after the electricity came back on)

I too am pleased to see the Government shake up emergency processes as clearly local government isnt up to the task. In Kapiti we dont have tsunami sirens, not sure what we have to be honest..other than high rates and newly over paid elected officials.

IMO we do need a SMS system but also emergency radio frequencies as cellular networks are very fickle in natural disasters due to damage and over use. The bunker under the beehive should be broadcasting the information directly via emergency radio frequencies.

People do panic during emergencies and dont always think clearly, so we do need to rely on timely and easily available emergency information.

geoffwnz

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#1673555 18-Nov-2016 12:51

Do most smart phones come with an FM receiver built in? Mine seems to as have the previous few. That's a reasonable radio receiver option at least and running in the background won't chew through too much battery. It's generally the screen and CPU intensive apps that really chew up the battery.

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frednz

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#1673567 18-Nov-2016 13:14

What phones do you have? Samsung mobile phones after the S3 do not have a built-in FM receiver so you are dependent on Internet to receive radio. If the power is off you can't use your home WiFi so you need to have plenty of mobile data available. If the network is down you need to have an old fashioned radio to do the job!

freitasm

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#1673596 18-Nov-2016 14:09

No, I wouldn't count on smartphones for radio. Most don't have anymore and if they do you need to plug headphones to work as antennas.

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geoffwnz

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#1673612 18-Nov-2016 14:24

frednz: What phones do you have? Samsung mobile phones after the S3 do not have a built-in FM receiver so you are dependent on Internet to receive radio. If the power is off you can't use your home WiFi so you need to have plenty of mobile data available. If the network is down you need to have an old fashioned radio to do the job!

Hmm, maybe I was thinking of my older S2.

Sorry, as you were.

MotorDrive Rallying

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