I am sorry but this really gets to me.

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#1259964 16-Mar-2015 07:19

I've worked 20-odd years in Public Service and about 10 in private industry, currently working for Govt.

My experience has been that people, generally speaking, work just as hard in Public as Private.

The big difference is the management... in Public Service, the management is inept and confused and counter-productive. There are rules and committees to prevent anything at all from happening. Successful people become adept at working around and avoiding those rules. The bureaucracy has completely lost sight of what service it is supposed to supply to the public, and is focussed on turf wars and pyramid building and Political Correctness and auditing and preventing "errors" (aka change).

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#1259967 16-Mar-2015 07:28

spot on!

in business ... it's income, growth, value, customers

in govt ... some KPI ... mmm ... yeah churn it up to make the KPI look acceptable then the managers will drink coffee and be merry

sorry maybe i got it wrong .. i .. know ... nothing!

michael001

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#1259969 16-Mar-2015 07:35

KiwiNZ:
Geektastic:

In my time in public service (UK and NZ) I have witnessed huge amounts of slacking, as well as departments chock full of staff who frankly could only be employed as some sort of act of charity or alternative to the dole.

I worked for 24 years in Government agencies and my experience was the opposite.

Well I have far less experience, five years attending various monthly Manukau City Council meetings right up until they became Auckland Council, which included fairly high level bureaucrats, various consultants and senior police officers.

The people I met, who were employed by the MCC were, in my opinion, unemployable in the private sector. Completely an utterly inept, openly conspiring and planning to withhold information from Councillors, analysing situations and then proposing the worst possible solution. Some of them, while stuffing there faces on catered lunches, would regularly say things like, "No I have not been able to get around to that yet, too busy with meetings this month". Some of them were a horrible combination of moronic and vindictive, deliberately causing chaos and changing decisions based on who ambushed who at the last meeting.

Given my experiences and the hundreds of people I have met over the years, I am surprised to find someone who has had the opposite experience.

I came into contact with Information Tech, Security and Community Care elements within the Council - surely none of what you did came close to any of those domains?

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#1259971 16-Mar-2015 07:35

frankv: I've worked 20-odd years in Public Service and about 10 in private industry, currently working for Govt.

My experience has been that people, generally speaking, work just as hard in Public as Private.

The big difference is the management... in Public Service, the management is inept and confused and counter-productive. There are rules and committees to prevent anything at all from happening. Successful people become adept at working around and avoiding those rules. The bureaucracy has completely lost sight of what service it is supposed to supply to the public, and is focussed on turf wars and pyramid building and Political Correctness and auditing and preventing "errors" (aka change).

Similar work history here, and couldn't agree more.

I have no issue with 'perks' of a job be they in a contract or implied to add value of the job to an individual without direct remuneration. Normally these are cheaper for the employer as well because they can be written off as an expense. But I agree once employment stops, then so should the 'package'.

IIRC in days gone by working in parliament was akin to volunteering to help the nation, it was not particularly highly paid, and people effectively gave up a 'normal' life of working and earning to serve their country. Perks were part of the reward for their service. These days they are well paid, and I see it no different to any other job, they just can expect a restructure every few years without fail.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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#1259973 16-Mar-2015 07:40

joker97: spot on!

in business ... it's income, growth, value, customers

in govt ... some KPI ... mmm ... yeah churn it up to make the KPI look acceptable then the managers will drink coffee and be merry

sorry maybe i got it wrong .. i .. know ... nothing!

You clearly have little knowledge of the public sector.

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#1259975 16-Mar-2015 07:49

yes that's correct. but can you shed any light on why the managers are inept? what do they work towrds if not KPIs?

MikeB4

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#1259976 16-Mar-2015 07:52

Management in the public sector and private sector do the same roles requiring the same outcomes, as do the rest of the staff.

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#1259977 16-Mar-2015 07:57

i'm sure they report to their boss who reports to the Minister. Minister has no clue what goes on, the use KPIs. KPIs pretty, minister happy, public outraged. KPIs bad minister angry journalists have a field day, public angrier. no?

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#1259981 16-Mar-2015 08:03

joker97: i'm sure they report to their boss who reports to the Minister. Minister has no clue what goes on, the use KPIs. KPIs pretty, minister happy, public outraged. KPIs bad minister angry journalists have a field day, public angrier. no?

So according to your view of the world no knows what they are doing. Wow how on earth is New Zealand succeeding?
And if we were to subscribe to your view nothing would be succeeding in NZ as staff/managing move between public and private sectors constantly.

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#1259999 16-Mar-2015 08:55

Presso: I am talking about former MP's though , if you leave McDonald's you don't get to eat their food for free. I am talking everything they get after they leave the bench.

Yep. When I left Telecom after 35 years there was no perks.. Don't see why x MPs should get them after they leave..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#1260010 16-Mar-2015 09:29

KiwiNZ:
Geektastic:
JimmyH:
khull: Too many digits and zeroes. There is an unstated tale that says he who works in state or government office shall receive higher compensation than an equivalent private employee, yet is allowed to complete duties at half the efficiency.

If that sounds like something that does not keep you awake at night, then a government servant position might be your calling. Else treat them accordingly and do not tolerate such behaviour.

I dispute that.

I have worked in both public sector and private sector roles. In both cases you will find some slackers but, in my experience, public servants typically work every bit as hard as private sector ones. As busy times when we were under pressure I popped in on a few weekends to catch up, and in some cases pretty much half the team was in doing the same to make sure deadlines were hit. And these were salaried folk (and some of the salaries were pretty low too) who are neither required to work on weekends, nor paid a cent extra for doing so. It's called being a professional.

Not exactly over-paid laziness in my book.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...!

In my time in public service (UK and NZ) I have witnessed huge amounts of slacking, as well as departments chock full of staff who frankly could only be employed as some sort of act of charity or alternative to the dole.

I worked for 24 years in Government agencies and my experience was the opposite.

Agencies are often different from actual departments due to their quango nature.

I encountered many people so slow, plodding and barely intelligent it constantly surprised me they could dress without assistance.

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#1260011 16-Mar-2015 09:30

joker97: i'm sure they report to their boss who reports to the Minister. Minister has no clue what goes on, the use KPIs. KPIs pretty, minister happy, public outraged. KPIs bad minister angry journalists have a field day, public angrier. no?

Yes, they love measurebating, that is for sure - no matter how irrelevant or pointless the numbers being reported.

MikeB4

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#1260013 16-Mar-2015 09:37

The private sector does reporting, lots of it, has targets and performance indicators just like the public sectors.

afe66

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#1260020 16-Mar-2015 09:39

old3eyes:
Presso: I am talking about former MP's though , if you leave McDonald's you don't get to eat their food for free. I am talking everything they get after they leave the bench.

Yep. When I left Telecom after 35 years there was no perks.. Don't see why x MPs should get them after they leave..

But if your contract at telecom said that after 25 years of service you get free line rental for rest of your life, you would be pissed surely if they came and took it away from you afterwards.

If the MP contract at the time said this is the salary/benefits of being a MP and they continue after you leave, well that's the way it is.

If the current contract says they get flights well, complain and protest but no change is going to be retrospective.

Bit like me complaining if I had gone to university 3 years earlier I wont have had a student loan.

A.

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#1260023 16-Mar-2015 09:42

Presso: I am talking about former MP's though , if you leave McDonald's you don't get to eat their food for free.

One would really need to question the concept of taxpayers paying for travel for people who used to be MPs.

Yes it's written into their terms and conditions, but the question really is Should it be?

Working long hours doesn't come into it, that's a stupid red herring to bring up.

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