Geektastic: Can still ignore emails, too!

He says he has no assets, he says he is owed by a debtor supplier. A supplier who owes him money? A debtor is a customer who has not paid. Unless he returned stock, but I imagine with his business model and the niche product telescopes are, he would not keep stock. He did refund to a friend after many months of hassle. 

tdgeek:

Geektastic: Can still ignore emails, too!

He says he has no assets, he says he is owed by a debtor supplier. A supplier who owes him money? A debtor is a customer who has not paid. Unless he returned stock, but I imagine with his business model and the niche product telescopes are, he would not keep stock. He did refund to a friend after many months of hassle. 

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic: Can still ignore emails, too!

 

 

 

He says he has no assets, he says he is owed by a debtor supplier. A supplier who owes him money? A debtor is a customer who has not paid. Unless he returned stock, but I imagine with his business model and the niche product telescopes are, he would not keep stock. He did refund to a friend after many months of hassle. 

 

Quite.

I'd say it was unfortunate if it were just one or two. The number of cases and the fact that he was actively doing it until very recently are more indicative of systemic fraud.

Interestingly, the police do not seem to have taken much interest.

The police are only interested if it's clearly a criminal matter. In order to reach this threshold, there needs to be clear evidence to support the fact he got the money from you knowingly and intending fully to never supply you. To get this evidence you would need a confession or some other form of equally guilty evidence. Don't forget when they take this to trial, potentially the prosecution has to be able to prove that there was a crime committed. Remember I was involved in a dodgy antics with a paving guy? Ended up on fair go. Police refused to get involved despite the fact he had been convicted of the same behaviour a couple of times before. He was caught previously because they tossed his cellphone and found he had sent text messages to multiple people on the same day saying he would physically attend site at the same time. 

Without this, he would not have been convicted. 

As the police say, there are a couple of thousand of these guys and girls running around doing this stuff regularly, we have limited resources and can only afford to prosecute the ones that have a good chance of conviction, and serve the public interest. 

It's frustrating, but probably the only fair way to approach it. 

networkn:

 

In order to reach this threshold, there needs to be clear evidence to support the fact he got the money from you knowingly and intending fully to never supply you.

 

This is my understanding too. He could claim he is just a bad businessman. Suddenly the cost of any prosecution escalates as it requires detailed investigation. 

However, there should be an easier way to shut these charlatans down. What is to stop him from just doing it again, and again?

surfisup1000:

 

networkn:

 

In order to reach this threshold, there needs to be clear evidence to support the fact he got the money from you knowingly and intending fully to never supply you.

 

 

This is my understanding too. He could claim he is just a bad businessman. Suddenly the cost of any prosecution escalates as it requires detailed investigation. 

 

However, there should be an easier way to shut these charlatans down. What is to stop him from just doing it again, and again?

 

 

 

Nothing stops them doing it again and again. I am fairly sure my guy is still doing his thing. I think he MAY have moved to Hamilton and is scamming people there. The issue being that to stop these guys doing what they do, when you can't "convict" them would have a very negative impact on companies who legitimately but not illegally have troubles with delivering in some instances.

One of the things that came out of all the effort we put in was his limited liability company run by his dad who "employed" him was shut down.

The system is far from perfect, but you could end up breaking more than you fix, by "fixing" it. 

Any changes would likely cost massively in terms of compliance, likely more than all the fraud it prevents in pure $ figures. I have no evidence to support it, but we lost $2000 but between what resources the police spent just investigating whether it was worth pursuing, they probably spent close to that in manpower probably. 

For a bit more background/info from others effected by it in the Astro industry

The party involved is NOT telescopesnz.net.nz who are a valid tick reseller

The website, until within a short time FairGo aired last night was shut down. Bascially, offline/closed. As of last night, it now presents users with no opportunity to make a sale. But notifications that refunds will be handled in due course on individual basis with an email

The hoster had been approached previously as to why it allowed to keep hosting with known bad customers. But also appears to be the contacts for refunts, so deeply tied in somehow.

What does appear new, is some of the related companies have changed status. Most recently one went liquidation Mar2

Oblivian: The party involved is NOT telescopesnz.net.nz who are a valid tick reseller

Can you confirm that's the right address? Should it in fact be www.telescopes.net.nz or www.telescopesnz.co.nz? telescopesnz.net.nz is a no-go.

Mybad. Ammended. Bad transposing. Warkworth = good. Timaru = bad.

Actually, I can't edit it now :/

'Telescopes NZ' = telescopes.net.nz

The other is a variation, and easy to tell as its now got closed refer vetta :)

Wishlist. Grows, Never empties.

I believe this is the gentleman in question, now before the courts, facing both dishonesty and methamphetamine charges.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/111790711/timaru-alleged-telescope-scammer-denies-charges-going-to-trial

 

Robert Francis McTague pleaded not guilty to 19 counts of obtaining by deception, 17 for more than $1000, and one count of procuring or possessing methamphetamine when he appeared before Judge Allan Roberts in the Timaru District Court on Thursday.

 

Geektastic: Trial now scheduled for July 2020.

Frankly, a ridiculously long time between offending and trial. Justice delayed in Justice denied, as the saying goes.

I was thinking you are lucky to get such an early date :)