How do you rack up $1m in debt ?

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#2058663 19-Jul-2018 09:54

Geektastic:

$1 million really isn't that much money in the scheme of things, to be honest. It may sound like it but out there in the real world, it's chump change.

According to "Sorted", the median net worth of adult NZers is $87,000 (or was in 2014).

So in the real world, $1 million should buy you 11.5 chumps.

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#2058705 19-Jul-2018 10:54

Geektastic:

$1 million really isn't that much money in the scheme of things, to be honest. It may sound like it but out there in the real world, it's chump change.

Oliver "Daddy" Warbucks, 1933:

"By the time I was 23 I'd made my first million. Then, in ten years, I turned that into a hundred million. And in those days that was a lot of money."

(Little Orphan Annie)

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#2058738 19-Jul-2018 11:59

Fred99:

Geektastic:

$1 million really isn't that much money in the scheme of things, to be honest. It may sound like it but out there in the real world, it's chump change.

According to "Sorted", the median net worth of adult NZers is $87,000 (or was in 2014).

So in the real world, $1 million should buy you 11.5 chumps.

That's not really anything to be proud of..!

There are quite a few cars that cost significantly more than $1m, so it really isn't that much in global terms. Even here, it's less than the cost of a house in many Auckland suburbs. A lot less than some suburbs.

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#2059026 19-Jul-2018 20:34

Fred99:

Geektastic:

$1 million really isn't that much money in the scheme of things, to be honest. It may sound like it but out there in the real world, it's chump change.

According to "Sorted", the median net worth of adult NZers is $87,000 (or was in 2014).

So in the real world, $1 million should buy you 11.5 chumps.

Your mistake is trying to talk facts with someone immune to the concept. Don't waste your time.

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#2059064 19-Jul-2018 21:47

dejadeadnz:

Fred99:

Geektastic:

$1 million really isn't that much money in the scheme of things, to be honest. It may sound like it but out there in the real world, it's chump change.

According to "Sorted", the median net worth of adult NZers is $87,000 (or was in 2014).

So in the real world, $1 million should buy you 11.5 chumps.

Your mistake is trying to talk facts with someone immune to the concept. Don't waste your time.

It is a fact that NZ$1 million is NOT a vast sum of money in global terms. It's not even a vast sum of money when buying houses in NZ.

Whilst it is significant, certainly, it is not even that much for a NZ business to lose by way of indebtedness. Mainzeal was well over $150 million in debt when it folded.

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#2059066 19-Jul-2018 21:50

Fred99:

networkn:

tripp:

I always find it interesting that when a business goes belly up there is always a big bill to IRD etc for GST / Tax etc.

Once you can't pay your GST or tax on wages you should know you have an big issue and should be talking to people and getting help ASAP. Using tax / gst funds for day to day business is just a big no no.

This.

Yeah - but from my experience with a friend who lost everything from a failed restaurant business, you've got so much invested in it (not just money - it's your reputation, lifestyle - everything) then there's "living in false hope" that you're going to be able to pay it back... tomorrow - when the business starts working.

Yes - it's stupid / irresponsible. I'd wager that most insolvencies have similar stories behind them - not people deliberately setting out to defraud, but slowly letting themselves be dragged in to a hole, then digging themselves deeper.

IMO what some hucksters do is much worse - setting up assorted ponzi schemes etc - with no "good intent" from the start.

It's called confirmation bias.

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#2059068 19-Jul-2018 21:51

Geektastic: You can go and spin it all you like but within the most relevant context (i.e. NZ), the "chump's change" (your offensive phrase; no one else's) is still many times the median net worth of the average NZ adult, according to a website run by the Commission for Capability, a state sector entity presumably with access to stats with the Department of Statistics.

Frankly, it's time you suck on some facts and stop yapping.

Edit: Making clear who I am replying to.

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#2059093 19-Jul-2018 22:58

dejadeadnz:

Geektastic: You can go and spin it all you like but within the most relevant context (i.e. NZ), the "chump's change" (your offensive phrase; no one else's) is still many times the median net worth of the average NZ adult, according to a website run by the Commission for Capability, a state sector entity presumably with access to stats with the Department of Statistics.

Frankly, it's time you suck on some facts and stop yapping.

Edit: Making clear who I am replying to.

I'm spinning nothing at all. Chump change is a common expression you'll find in a dictionary meaning a small amount of money. You have actually misquoted it to mean something else - there is no apostrophe s in the phrase and ergo no specific 'chump'.

Here is an example of it in use:

"That, of course, is chump change compared with the $8.2 million that Governor Charlie Baker holds in his campaign account — not to mention the $3.65 million that his running mate, Lieutenant Governor Karyn Polito, has in hers."
—
Frank Phillips, BostonGlobe.com, "For Bob Massie, a hard climb ahead," 7 June 2018

We are debating how a business could lose $1m and I am pointing out that whilst it is significant, it isn't actually that large a sum.

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#2059097 19-Jul-2018 23:07

Well this thread nose dived a bit :-)

My view is that $1.3mill isn't chump change anywhere. Try convincing a judge to let you off easy for stelaing $1.3million dollars by saying it is only "chump change" :-)

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#2059101 19-Jul-2018 23:12

Mark:

Well this thread nose dived a bit :-)

My view is that $1.3mill isn't chump change anywhere. Try convincing a judge to let you off easy for stelaing $1.3million dollars by saying it is only "chump change" :-)

The judge wouldn't let you off for stealing $13 never mind $1.3 million - the problem is that you stole it, not that it is $1.3 million..!

I'm just using a longer yardstick (if that is technically possible) to measure against, that is all.

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#2059125 20-Jul-2018 06:54

Mark:

... Try convincing a judge to let you off easy for stealing $1.3million dollars by saying it is only "chump change" :-)

Using the term stealing with some poetic licence, the guv'nors of the failed finance companies in 2007-2008 got off pretty damn lightly.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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#2059133 20-Jul-2018 07:59

Cashflow is more important than profit. You can run a business without making a profit, you can't without positive cashflow. So, the debtors are chased up, the creditors are used to pay older creditors, its a spiral. Ive seen a few small businesses where the money in the bank funds a flash car and so on. After all, the debtors are paying, I can hold off creditors, it'll all be fine. Then its not when creditors put you on hold. Cash is oil, it needs to flow round and round.

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#2059148 20-Jul-2018 08:18

floydbloke:
Mark:

... Try convincing a judge to let you off easy for stealing $1.3million dollars by saying it is only "chump change" :-)

Using the term stealing with some poetic licence, the guv'nors of the failed finance companies in 2007-2008 got off pretty damn lightly.

Agreed. Also previously. One of our neighbors was a board member at Brierley. BMT but I hear about it often from aggrieved locals!

Fred99

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#2059172 20-Jul-2018 08:47

networkn:

Fred99:

networkn:

tripp:

I always find it interesting that when a business goes belly up there is always a big bill to IRD etc for GST / Tax etc.

Once you can't pay your GST or tax on wages you should know you have an big issue and should be talking to people and getting help ASAP. Using tax / gst funds for day to day business is just a big no no.

This.

Yeah - but from my experience with a friend who lost everything from a failed restaurant business, you've got so much invested in it (not just money - it's your reputation, lifestyle - everything) then there's "living in false hope" that you're going to be able to pay it back... tomorrow - when the business starts working.

Yes - it's stupid / irresponsible. I'd wager that most insolvencies have similar stories behind them - not people deliberately setting out to defraud, but slowly letting themselves be dragged in to a hole, then digging themselves deeper.

IMO what some hucksters do is much worse - setting up assorted ponzi schemes etc - with no "good intent" from the start.

It's called confirmation bias.

It's an anecdote and an opinion. "Confirmation bias" - lol.

If through people you know, associate with, do business with, you feel that people set up businesses as ponzi schemes or with no "good intent" from the start, then you're hanging around with the wrong kind of folks.

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#2059174 20-Jul-2018 08:49

Fred99:

It's an anecdote and an opinion. "Confirmation bias" - lol.

If through people you know, associate with, do business with, you feel that people set up businesses as ponzi schemes or with no "good intent" from the start, then you're hanging around with the wrong kind of folks.

No, I was saying that the confirmation bias, is where you continue to invest resources into something, because "you already spend a lot of money on it" or the like.

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