Another CGA advice thread :(

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#2269840 4-Jul-2019 12:50

trig42:

I'd say under the CGA, an oven should last more than 8 years (but probably not a huge amount more).

Parts should certainly be available.

I would be asking them what they plan to do to remedy your situation, reminding them of the fact it was a $2000 oven and you expect resolution under the CGA. You actually have a case against the retailer you bought it from. They are the ones who legally have to sort it.

Disputes tribunal filing would be the next step.

It's not a Parmco is it? we had one, same size, same price. It crapped out a few times (overheated the switch mechanism/circuitry for the oven function selection). They provided the parts to fix it three times (one of which we paid labour for). After 8 years, we gave up on it and bought a Bosch. They would have fixed it again, but it would have just died again, probably when the head chef was in the middle of cooking something very important (not just my dinner ;) ). Parmco were however, pretty good to deal with. They seemed to understand the CGA, though I saw on Fair Go a few weeks back an issue with a Parmco Oven, which only after getting Fair Go involved they refunded.

Ppfftt... the oven in my sons flat it probably 40+ years old. For an expensive oven I would say 15-20 years is easily realistic.

We should be demanding LONGER warranty periods, LONGER life expectancies , LONGER serviceability periods. The ONLY people who benefit from this throw away society are the shareholders. If you want to make a product that can not be fixed, then it best come with a LONG warranty. I spent many days fixing toasters, kettles, irons, etc during my apprenticeship and parts were easy to come by.

sir1963

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#2269853 4-Jul-2019 13:02

Jase2985:

Lias:

From Consumer:

Ovens & stoves

Economic life: 10-20+ years
Life expectancy: 15+ years
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/appliance-life-expectancy

the problem with what consumer recommends is it doesnt take into account use, which is one of the major factors which reduces the life of a product.

If you are cooking in your oven every day, or multiple times a day it will have a shorter life span than someone who uses their oven 3-4 times a week. that there is a doubling or halving of the life of the oven which ever way you look at it.

so while its nice to have the above figures IMO they should not be taken as this is how long something should last without considering how much use it has.

Back in the good old days you released a couple of clips, pulled the dead element out, plugged in a new one, clipped it back into place, and away you went.

Designing products so they can not be repaired is an engineering choice.

Its fairly simple, make 10 years warranties mandatory, and 20 years parts supply mandatory. Sure the initial purchase price will go up, but the total cost of ownership will drop. Remove the ability to have sole supplier for parts, an element made in New Zealand, or China will get hot just the same as one made in China for an Italian company at 10 times the price. Manufacturers who use standard elements, hinges, fittings, etc will have a cheaper product than some bespoke overpriced bit of crap from Italy. Sure some manufacturers will pull out of the NZ market, but it also opens up a gap for "made in NZ". An oven is NOT a fashion item, there are plenty of flats, batches, etc etc who will take you old working appliances if you are stupid enough to replace it quickly.

I have spent many hours during my apprenticeship fixing all manner of appliances...because they could be fixed. A standard GG element for a toaster was cheap .

sir1963

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#2269887 4-Jul-2019 13:20

E3xtc:

mattwnz:

You can usually get replacement parts for oven springs and hinges, as they are one of the few moving parts in an oven. Maybe something can be custom made for it, and maybe that is part of the solution

I wonder where I would go to find replacement parts for an oven given the manufacturer no longer has replacement parts for that model? If custom made, where would I start down that path? Also the cost would have to be sensible because it doesn't make sense to spend a huge amount of money on getting a part designed and manufactured for a product that is pretty "normal" at best.

To date (after letting them know nicely, my feelings and a desire for them to provide a reasonable resolution given their legal responsibility) they have come back asking for proof of purchase before forwarding this up the chain to someone else - not that proof of purchase has anything to do with them not holding parts for a product range that is not that old, but am humouring the situation and have sent it through...radio silence for now. So a little boy waits.
Meanwhile the door is held close with a bungy cord :D

The CGA does not require you to be the original purchaser , that is also another line of BS companies try to use to get out of their responsibilities.

I bought an Omega OF602WZ oven for one of the flats I own. All the top elements burnt out within a year. It got repaired, and then within another 12 months they were all DOA again. Pulled out the CGA and they gave me a 100% refund as there were no parts available (...after only 2 years... ???).

mattwnz

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#2269920 4-Jul-2019 14:26

E3xtc:

mattwnz:

You can usually get replacement parts for oven springs and hinges, as they are one of the few moving parts in an oven. Maybe something can be custom made for it, and maybe that is part of the solution

I wonder where I would go to find replacement parts for an oven given the manufacturer no longer has replacement parts for that model? If custom made, where would I start down that path? Also the cost would have to be sensible because it doesn't make sense to spend a huge amount of money on getting a part designed and manufactured for a product that is pretty "normal" at best.

To date (after letting them know nicely, my feelings and a desire for them to provide a reasonable resolution given their legal responsibility) they have come back asking for proof of purchase before forwarding this up the chain to someone else - not that proof of purchase has anything to do with them not holding parts for a product range that is not that old, but am humouring the situation and have sent it through...radio silence for now. So a little boy waits.
Meanwhile the door is held close with a bungy cord :D

A small metal engineering company maybe able to help.

Bung

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#2269971 4-Jul-2019 15:43

sir1963:
I bought an Omega OF602WZ oven for one of the flats I own. All the top elements burnt out within a year. It got repaired, and then within another 12 months they were all DOA again. Pulled out the CGA and they gave me a 100% refund as there were no parts available (...after only 2 years... ???).

There is an Auckland company that will replicate any element if you send the original.

Edit. Our 25yr + f&P always had poor door closing. The design doesn't have much pressure holding the door closed. I've added a harddrive magnet to the top corners. There is about .5mm clearance between magnet and oven shell when sealed.

sir1963

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#2269974 4-Jul-2019 15:52

mattwnz:

E3xtc:

mattwnz:

You can usually get replacement parts for oven springs and hinges, as they are one of the few moving parts in an oven. Maybe something can be custom made for it, and maybe that is part of the solution

I wonder where I would go to find replacement parts for an oven given the manufacturer no longer has replacement parts for that model? If custom made, where would I start down that path? Also the cost would have to be sensible because it doesn't make sense to spend a huge amount of money on getting a part designed and manufactured for a product that is pretty "normal" at best.

To date (after letting them know nicely, my feelings and a desire for them to provide a reasonable resolution given their legal responsibility) they have come back asking for proof of purchase before forwarding this up the chain to someone else - not that proof of purchase has anything to do with them not holding parts for a product range that is not that old, but am humouring the situation and have sent it through...radio silence for now. So a little boy waits.
Meanwhile the door is held close with a bungy cord :D

A small metal engineering company maybe able to help.

Well by the time you have an electrician pull it apart, an engineer build the part and the electrician resemble it, all at $100/hr or more it becomes very expensive very quickly.

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sir1963

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#2269976 4-Jul-2019 15:52

Bung:
sir1963:

I bought an Omega OF602WZ oven for one of the flats I own. All the top elements burnt out within a year. It got repaired, and then within another 12 months they were all DOA again. Pulled out the CGA and they gave me a 100% refund as there were no parts available (...after only 2 years... ???).

There is an Auckland company that will replicate any element if you send the original.

Yep, used a few of them over the years for work.

mattwnz

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#2269980 4-Jul-2019 16:04

sir1963:

mattwnz:

E3xtc:

mattwnz:

You can usually get replacement parts for oven springs and hinges, as they are one of the few moving parts in an oven. Maybe something can be custom made for it, and maybe that is part of the solution

I wonder where I would go to find replacement parts for an oven given the manufacturer no longer has replacement parts for that model? If custom made, where would I start down that path? Also the cost would have to be sensible because it doesn't make sense to spend a huge amount of money on getting a part designed and manufactured for a product that is pretty "normal" at best.

To date (after letting them know nicely, my feelings and a desire for them to provide a reasonable resolution given their legal responsibility) they have come back asking for proof of purchase before forwarding this up the chain to someone else - not that proof of purchase has anything to do with them not holding parts for a product range that is not that old, but am humouring the situation and have sent it through...radio silence for now. So a little boy waits.
Meanwhile the door is held close with a bungy cord :D

A small metal engineering company maybe able to help.

Well by the time you have an electrician pull it apart, an engineer build the part and the electrician resemble it, all at $100/hr or more it becomes very expensive very quickly.

Doesn't the door and hinges detach from the unit? Often they are attached to the door, so you can remove the door. But it is something the manufacturer should be sorting for you as part of the solution, if that is what they propose.

E3xtc

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#2269982 4-Jul-2019 16:05

sir1963:

Well by the time you have an electrician pull it apart, an engineer build the part and the electrician resemble it, all at $100/hr or more it becomes very expensive very quickly.

This was my thoughts as well. So while its an option, it very quickly becomes an uneconomic one.

mattwnz

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#2269984 4-Jul-2019 16:07

E3xtc:

sir1963:

Well by the time you have an electrician pull it apart, an engineer build the part and the electrician resemble it, all at $100/hr or more it becomes very expensive very quickly.

This was my thoughts as well. So while its an option, it very quickly becomes an uneconomic one.

I guess it depends on the value of the oven, and who has to do all the leg work involved. But the CGA would hopefully cover any associated costs involved in repairing it.

Have to remember that a new oven also has other costs, including getting an electrician to wire it up and disposing of the old one, so that would likely be in the hundreds as well, on top of the price of the oven

dt

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#2270316 5-Jul-2019 10:53

Lias:
From Consumer:

Ovens & stoves

Economic life: 10-20+ years
Life expectancy: 15+ years
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/appliance-life-expectancy

Does consumer.org.nz actually have any connection with the CGA legislation though?

I always thought consumer.org.nz was a private company the just gave their "professional advice" rather than "these are the rules you must follow"

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#2270406 5-Jul-2019 12:29

E3xtc:
sir1963:

Well by the time you have an electrician pull it apart, an engineer build the part and the electrician resemble it, all at $100/hr or more it becomes very expensive very quickly.

This was my thoughts as well. So while its an option, it very quickly becomes an uneconomic one.

It’s shouldn’t be a cost to you so I wouldn’t worry, the manufacturer will take the most economical way, whether it’s a repair, replacement or refund.

Lias

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#2270650 5-Jul-2019 18:24

dt:

Does consumer.org.nz actually have any connection with the CGA legislation though? I always thought consumer.org.nz was a private company the just gave their "professional advice" rather than "these are the rules you must follow"

Kind of. It was founded back in the 50's to promote consumer rights, then in the 60's it become government funded then in the 1980's became an independent not for profit society. It's not officially "linked" these days that I'm aware of but they jointly run Powerswitch with the Ministry of Consumer Affairs.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

E3xtc

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#2272320 9-Jul-2019 11:51

So they have come back saying that we can purchase a brand new one from them for $1380 (a grand total of $318 less than the full price we paid 8 years ago). IMO this is not a fair and reasonable cost incurred by us for the lack of their upholding their legal obligation in relation to holding spare parts/servicing.

I am thinking I will respond, suggesting that assuming this is their final offer I will have to purchase another unit and then claim costs back via a disputes tribunal hearing.

sir1963

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#2272324 9-Jul-2019 12:06

E3xtc:

So they have come back saying that we can purchase a brand new one from them for $1380 (a grand total of $318 less than the full price we paid 8 years ago). IMO this is not a fair and reasonable cost incurred by us for the lack of their upholding their legal obligation in relation to holding spare parts/servicing.

I am thinking I will respond, suggesting that assuming this is their final offer I will have to purchase another unit and then claim costs back via a disputes tribunal hearing.

No, you must let them know in writing that you are making a claim under the CGA, and its better if you also quote the parts of the act that applies to your claim.

This is to give them time to remedy the situation.

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