A mighty haze in the south island

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Awrrr
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#2384144 2-Jan-2020 12:52

Unless I missed something, there doesn't seem to be a thread devoted to the terrible bushfire catastrophe ravaging Australia, which I find a little surprising. Anyway, I will post my deepest sympathy here, and also add a question.

Bush fires have both natural (lightning) and pre-industrial human (aborigine) causes. Although there can be no question that climate change is contributing to the ferocity of the Australian fires, I wonder if human activity has also made them worse by preventing smaller and more frequent fires that otherwise would have naturally occurred. Is this a case of one big fire (yes, I know there is more than one) in place of many little ones?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Technofreak

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#2384247 2-Jan-2020 15:16

Rikkitic:

Unless I missed something, there doesn't seem to be a thread devoted to the terrible bushfire catastrophe ravaging Australia, which I find a little surprising. Anyway, I will post my deepest sympathy here, and also add a question.

Bush fires have both natural (lightning) and pre-industrial human (aborigine) causes. Although there can be no question that climate change is contributing to the ferocity of the Australian fires, I wonder if human activity has also made them worse by preventing smaller and more frequent fires that otherwise would have naturally occurred. Is this a case of one big fire (yes, I know there is more than one) in place of many little ones?

I agree. You're not the only one thinking that.

See here https://ensia.com/features/indigenous-knowledge-wildfires-australia/

and here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-20/hazard-reduction-burns-bushfires/11817336

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MikeB4

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#2384251 2-Jan-2020 15:30

Climate change is making the conditions for wild fires more often and worse. They are in our future as well.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

vexxxboy

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#2384267 2-Jan-2020 16:26

the wind must have changed, Rotorua is back to blue skies.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Kyanar

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#2384466 3-Jan-2020 00:06

Rikkitic:

Unless I missed something, there doesn't seem to be a thread devoted to the terrible bushfire catastrophe ravaging Australia, which I find a little surprising. Anyway, I will post my deepest sympathy here, and also add a question.

Bush fires have both natural (lightning) and pre-industrial human (aborigine) causes. Although there can be no question that climate change is contributing to the ferocity of the Australian fires, I wonder if human activity has also made them worse by preventing smaller and more frequent fires that otherwise would have naturally occurred. Is this a case of one big fire (yes, I know there is more than one) in place of many little ones?

This is largely true. Controlled hazard reduction burns are something the RFS does on a regular basis when conditions permit, however the issue is that over the last decade, the bushfire season has been getting longer and the conditions outside bushfire season too dangerous to permit the level of reduction burn preferred. Many deniers constantly try and claim that the Greens, with like two seats in parliament, singlehandedly banned hazard reduction burns, but that's just because they're stupid. But the issue is that it just can't be done safely.

Ge0rge

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#2384549 3-Jan-2020 12:17

Kyanar:
Rikkitic:

Unless I missed something, there doesn't seem to be a thread devoted to the terrible bushfire catastrophe ravaging Australia, which I find a little surprising. Anyway, I will post my deepest sympathy here, and also add a question.

Bush fires have both natural (lightning) and pre-industrial human (aborigine) causes. Although there can be no question that climate change is contributing to the ferocity of the Australian fires, I wonder if human activity has also made them worse by preventing smaller and more frequent fires that otherwise would have naturally occurred. Is this a case of one big fire (yes, I know there is more than one) in place of many little ones?

This is largely true. Controlled hazard reduction burns are something the RFS does on a regular basis when conditions permit, however the issue is that over the last decade, the bushfire season has been getting longer and the conditions outside bushfire season too dangerous to permit the level of reduction burn preferred. Many deniers constantly try and claim that the Greens, with like two seats in parliament, singlehandedly banned hazard reduction burns, but that's just because they're stupid. But the issue is that it just can't be done safely.

It would appear from this article, that one Allan Jones and the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association of NSW, would disagree with you on why they haven't been able to do the burns and also maintain the fire breaks.

https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/it-is-high-time-bureaucrats-and-politicians-stopped-blaming-climate-change-for-a-bushfire-crisis-that-is-very-much-of-their-own-making-and-is-putting-lives-at-risk?fbclid=IwAR0QFFEKXTESCFC2TVwRN_f7JEzGw1IW-cevdqWXqP2PCFWErgv41xYP1i4

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jlittle

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#2384671 3-Jan-2020 17:01

Ge0rge: ... one Allan Jones...

I'm very uncomfortable being on the same side of an argument as him. But he's not going far enough; even well maintained fire breaks won't solve the problem, fuel will still build up in any forest that gets dry some of the time. As I said earlier, it's all going to burn sooner or later. This means fire breaks around everything people don't want to see burnt, like houses and towns, and burns of every dry forest. I imagine Allan Jones' audience would be in arms if the government told them they had to cut down all their trees, and knock back even grass. Or told them they can't put out fires.

In western North America they learned this the hard way. On federal land there the broad policy is now if a fire starts naturally it isn't put out, unless it threatens people.

Regards, John Little

Kyanar

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#2385118 4-Jan-2020 20:02

Ge0rge:

It would appear from this article, that one Allan Jones and the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association of NSW, would disagree with you on why they haven't been able to do the burns and also maintain the fire breaks.

https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/it-is-high-time-bureaucrats-and-politicians-stopped-blaming-climate-change-for-a-bushfire-crisis-that-is-very-much-of-their-own-making-and-is-putting-lives-at-risk?fbclid=IwAR0QFFEKXTESCFC2TVwRN_f7JEzGw1IW-cevdqWXqP2PCFWErgv41xYP1i4

Two things - one, the "Volunteer Firefighters Association" is not well liked by volunteer firefighters, and does not represent their interests. Second, Alan Jones is a Murdoch talking head and is not to be believed on anything to do with the environment, or anything other than making the rich richer. This is a guy that thinks Adani is a good thing, welfare should be abolished, and Extinction Rebellion should be rounded up and thrown into gulags. The article is a load of rubbish, and contradicts what has come from the RFS itself, CSIRO, NASA, ABC, BoM, and countless other organisations with a lot more authority than that blowhard.

Kyanar

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#2385119 4-Jan-2020 20:05

jlittle:

I'm very uncomfortable being on the same side of an argument as him. But he's not going far enough; even well maintained fire breaks won't solve the problem, fuel will still build up in any forest that gets dry some of the time. As I said earlier, it's all going to burn sooner or later. This means fire breaks around everything people don't want to see burnt, like houses and towns, and burns of every dry forest. I imagine Allan Jones' audience would be in arms if the government told them they had to cut down all their trees, and knock back even grass. Or told them they can't put out fires.

In western North America they learned this the hard way. On federal land there the broad policy is now if a fire starts naturally it isn't put out, unless it threatens people.

Alan Jones audience all live in the concrete jungle of Sydney, let's be real. The sort of people that listen to him would be ecstatic to hear the government wants them to level lots of trees.

Sideface

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#2385168 4-Jan-2020 21:16

Kyanar: Alan Jones audience all live in the concrete jungle of Sydney, let's be real. The sort of people that listen to him would be ecstatic to hear the government wants them to level lots of trees.