Are TV shows becoming too politically correct? (expect SPOILERS)

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allio

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#2615485 3-Dec-2020 11:54

Honestly I don't understand how this is something that can be said to have "swung too far in the opposite direction". That implies there's a level of minority representation in media which is "just right" and that exceeding it is a problem. What is that level, and why is it where you've placed it? Why exactly is it a problem if you see more minority representation than you personally think is justified? Can minority actors and characters not carry a story as well as straight white men?

Seeing more and more minority characters in our films and TV just isn't a problem. It's evidence of our society changing for the better. If you can point to an example of how the quality of the media genuinely suffers (as opposed to just jarring with your nostalgic childhood memories) then that'd be an interesting discussion. However I'm pretty sure it's not worse - it's just different.

Geektastic

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#2615490 3-Dec-2020 12:04

I don’t like miscasting to suit agendas.

For example, David Copperfield was recently cast with a British Indian actor. Just no. It’s akin to getting a white actor to play Shaft. Some things are just the way they are and diversity has to take a back seat.

Paul1977

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#2615540 3-Dec-2020 12:51

allio:

Honestly I don't understand how this is something that can be said to have "swung too far in the opposite direction". That implies there's a level of minority representation in media which is "just right" and that exceeding it is a problem. What is that level, and why is it where you've placed it? Why exactly is it a problem if you see more minority representation than you personally think is justified? Can minority actors and characters not carry a story as well as straight white men?

Seeing more and more minority characters in our films and TV just isn't a problem. It's evidence of our society changing for the better. If you can point to an example of how the quality of the media genuinely suffers (as opposed to just jarring with your nostalgic childhood memories) then that'd be an interesting discussion. However I'm pretty sure it's not worse - it's just different.

Yes they can. My previous post was probably a poor choice of words, and on reflection (and after considering some of the other posts) doesn't really describe what I'm noticing. It isn't overrepresentation so much as it is the way it often appears to have been shoehorned in just to "tick a box" rather than to service the story.

If I'm consciously noticing an obvious political agenda, then it has been poorly written. I think that's probably my issue.

Doctor Who is a perfect example. I thought a female Doctor was a good idea, and I thought Jodie Whittaker was a good choice. But the stories were so preachy it was almost unwatchable, not because you disagreed with the message, but because it was so in your face it ruined your enjoyment of the show.

Other more recent examples are Supergirl and Batwoman. Again, these were very poorly written (in my opinion). They had clear SJW agendas that hit you over the head like a sledgehammer.

Some older shows like Star Trek TNG had some fantastic episodes about very (for the time) controversial subjects. But they were done so well that it never took you out of the story. The reboot Battlestar Galactica series had a very good story line paralleling the US invasion of Iraq - but the "evil" Cylons were the stand-ins for the US, and the "heroes" were stand-ins for the Iraqi insurgents (including suicide bombers). But it wasn't until afterwards if you analysed the show that you made the connection to real world politics.

Paul1977

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#2615546 3-Dec-2020 12:56

Geektastic: I don’t like miscasting to suit agendas.

For example, David Copperfield was recently cast with a British Indian actor. Just no. It’s akin to getting a white actor to play Shaft. Some things are just the way they are and diversity has to take a back seat.

Still probably better than John Wayne playing Genghis Khan though. That actually happened.

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#2615581 3-Dec-2020 13:32

Geektastic: I don’t like miscasting to suit agendas.

For example, David Copperfield was recently cast with a British Indian actor. Just no. It’s akin to getting a white actor to play Shaft. Some things are just the way they are and diversity has to take a back seat.

I thought he was great in the role.

The colour of the character's skin was of no relevance to the story, so I don't see why it should impinge on your enjoyment of the film?

Lias

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#2615852 3-Dec-2020 19:25

Zigg:

Yep... It's goofy as, but I love the S.W.A.T reboot TV series.

It's got a diversity checklist for sure! Asian guy - check, African-American boss - check, Crusty old white dude - check, female - check, who happened to get in a relationship with a M/F couple at the same time.

Yep that's one of the shows I was thinking of lol. It really does feel a bit forced, but still a great show.

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sen8or

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#2616233 4-Dec-2020 10:29

Is "rainbow washing" in TV / Movies the equivalent of "green washing" in business, oooh look at us aren't we good?

There is nothing wrong with a TV show addressing social and/or political issues, some choose to do so subtly, others less so but when it is done in a way where it isn't any real relevance other than to shout about being "woke", then I think yes its gone too far.

I come back to something like Boston Legal, they addressed a multitude of societal and political issues throughout the lifetime of the show yet did so in such a way that they drew the viewer (well, in my opinion anyway) into the issue before using whatever method relevant to the story to push their view (which by and large was leftwing / socially aware).

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#2616274 4-Dec-2020 11:20

I look at the likes of Lethal Weapon (the Prime TV series, not the movies) as a clear indication of how a good bit of diversity just works...You barely notice that the Captain is gay - it's just a relationship in the show, like any other. Many of the main characters are people of colour - every colour.

There doesn't seem to be a hardline social agenda and there's no obvious steering of SJW tropes. But it reflects life outside the show quite nicely. There ARE gay people with decent jobs. There ARE black cops who have and love their families. There are racial inequities that get seen and addressed without it being preachy, but can still open your eyes to the injustices.

And added to that, it's great escapism...and totally unrealistic from a procedural point of view...everyone shoots a million people every week and there's no paperwork to be seen. Brilliant. Oh...and SWAT always go into a hostile situation last, because they have the body armour and training. You should always put a detective into harm's way first.

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Lizard1977

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#2616357 4-Dec-2020 15:07

Paul1977:

ShinyChrome:

To be honest, I'd actually be more interested to hear from people that were previously marginalized about how they feel about representation; do these characters actually resound with them, or are they still just mostly lazy card-board cut-outs of tired clichés and stereotypes?

Those are opinions I'd like to hear as well. I would have thought there's a good chance a lot of it is white male writers trying to be more diverse and failing at it, but I'm not someone who can judge that.

I can't offer a first-hand experience, but I do have second-hand experience of a person who is very close to me who recently came out as gay and gender non-binary, and can share my first-hand perspective of their experience.

We watch a lot of shows together, and many that have been mentioned (e.g. Doctor Who) are extremely important for helping to normalise their experiences and feelings. I can't tell you myself how that feels, but they have told me how empowering it feels to see their stories, their perspectives, and their experience represented on-screen. Absolutely the quality of writing will vary, as it always does, and some shows will approach it as just tokenism. But I don't think we should use the fact that quality varies as a reason not to embrace more diverse representation on-screen. Consider instead that these are initial steps that, over time, will improve and get to a point where (as others have said) the fact of their inclusion no longer becomes noticeable - it's just part of the norm (which I think is the goal).

My perspective (somewhat on the sidelines to someone who is experiencing this first-hand, and as a white cis-gendered male) is enthusiastic support for anything which opens people's eyes to the very real harm and trauma that has been inflicted by a largely unaware society on so many parts of the community. Even many of the comments in this thread, which most would consider relatively harmless, can cause deep harm to people who find themselves excluded and made invisible through language and actions. Representation, which probably seems like a very minor thing of no consequence to most people, is extremely powerful and empowering. If you've never had to stare into the eyes of someone who fears every day for their own safety because of their sexual or gender identity, and how people will react and treat them - even here in "friendly" ol' New Zealand/Aotearoa - then it can be very hard to appreciate the value of those small things. I've witnessed second-hand the impact of simple things like official forms, avatars on websites - the anxiety and emotional drain that it induces. For the majority who sail through those experiences unscathed, it seems like making a fuss over nothing. But I can tell you that it is not nothing. So I will never begrudge any effort - whether on-screen or in real life - to raise awareness for the need to recognise greater diversity. As someone who falls squarely in the white, male cis-gender box, I have no sympathy or patience for people who feel threatened by "changes" to the way things have been for most of human history.

To answer the OP question - in my view, the answer is simple: no.

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