Is AM radio really under threat?

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524 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3048078 9-Mar-2023 13:28

quickymart:

To be fair, a lot of the local stations in Hawkes Bay and Gisborne did have local presenters in the studio while the disaster was happening, giving people advice on what to do and where to go.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/02/21/gisborne-radio-legend-keeping-locals-connected-amid-the-storms/

I even heard that The Breeze in Hawkes Bay was transferred to an AM signal there so locals could pick it up as their usual FM transmitter was out of action - but the AM one (with a local show) was still functioning.

I'm a HB local, I know The Hits lost their FM frequency and ended up confiscating another station's FM frequency from their radio network. Of course most listeners had to guess that because most people had no power or internet to be able to find out. My go-to was rolling coverage on RNZ National who have both FM and AM though FM was never a problem.

Rikkitic

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#3048097 9-Mar-2023 14:37

I vote resolutely for AM. Declaring it dead is incredibly short-sighted. When I was cut off by the storm, the transistor was all I had to keep in touch. Internet was patchy and my UPS battery limited. The radio really did help me get through. I also don't understand the audio snob attitude. Generations of young people got huge enjoyment from AM quality mono car radios. It doesn't have to be hi-res to give people a good time. There is a real place for AM in the world and hopefully always will be.

In a distant past life I was also a radio ham. From the news reports I believe a ham in Gisborne was the only means of communication with the outside world for a time, and provided much-appreciated news updates for the community. People need to get outside their box and see the bigger picture. There is a place for FM, AM, microwave, and every other part of the radio spectrum. Don't rule something out just because its use case has changed.

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Tinkerisk

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#3048127 9-Mar-2023 15:37

"DAB+ radio in the event of a disaster

Radios are ideal for informing the population in the event of a disaster. But here, too, digitalisation is making itself felt, and radios with DAB+ tuners will take over this task.

Digital radios can not only transmit audio signals, but also a lot of additional information that can be shown on the display of the crank radio with DAB+. Thanks to the Alarm DAB function, digital radios can also receive switch-on commands that cause the radio to switch on without any intervention or to switch to the station of the federal government. The federal government or a state government can then inform the population in the event of a disaster. This works in a similar way to the car radio, where the radio automatically switches to traffic radio with the help of RDS.

The disaster station is received via DAB+ with the help of EWF (Emergency Warning Functionality). ARD stations and Deutschlandfunk are then requested or even obliged to provide the population with appropriate information in the event of a disaster."

This was tested here on 8 December last year during the national disaster alert at 11:00 a.m. Even the open source voice assistant in the kitchen automatically spoke up, which I hadn't expected at all. However, it also depends on the population and the radio station densitiy, which is known to be somewhat higher here than in NZ.

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jarledb

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#3048134 9-Mar-2023 16:05

fe31nz:

Not better than FM I would think - but likely better than how FM is done on commercial radio stations, where it is deliberately made louder so that when you are scanning you will stop on their station.

Loudness is a problem for sound quality for sure. But that is not what I mean when I say better than FM - although in Norway (one of the first countries to completely switch to DAB) the loudness war has stopped. And they have actually agreed to keep on the same loudness levels to make sure that it is a unified experience and things don't get loud or quiet just willy nilly as you switch stations.

As for FM. Even if you are in the perfect location to receive the signal (which you won't be), the dynamic range of FM (from quietest signal to loudest signal) is not great. Neither is frequency range.

Trust me, a high bandwidth DAB+ station broadcasting classic music is going to be indistinguishable from listening to a CD.

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richms

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#3048136 9-Mar-2023 16:14

And yet with accountants driving it, there will be no high bandwidth DAB station since by making it low bandwidth they can rent the rest of it to ethnic or religious programming, right wing nutjobs or whatever else will pay them.

Richard rich.ms

jarledb

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#3048141 9-Mar-2023 16:21

richms:

And yet with accountants driving it, there will be no high bandwidth DAB station since by making it low bandwidth they can rent the rest of it to ethnic or religious programming, right wing nutjobs or whatever else will pay them.

Sadly that is probably true. And you will have a million different format type radio stations, playing their limited playlist in different genres.

I wish there were more BBC Radio 6 Music type stations in the world (unformatted radio, so not playing a limited playlist).

But that is not a limitation of the technology.

Tinkerisk

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#3048143 9-Mar-2023 16:25

I don't know about you, but here programme content is controlled by a democratically appointed, independent broadcasting council, not by some accountants. Moreover, you need a broadcasting licence, which you can't just buy with money.

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anatokidave

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#3048326 9-Mar-2023 20:41

I think the Cyclone Gabrielle events have shown the importance of the KISS principle.

The beauty of AM is that it will provide reasonable regional coverage, and be able to be received on a device that does not need much power. I'm guessing that most RNZ AM infrastructure dates back to NZBC days and beyond, so they probably still have back-up generators on site. Most vehicle radios still have MW AM receivers (and they have a power source), so there is potential for good reach into the rugged hinterland that is not well served by FM or other services that require more infrastructure intensity. The use-case in NZ is that there are many small communities in sparsely populated rugged terrain, especially on the East Coast, inland Taranaki / King Country, and large parts of the South Island.

I still use AM in the car because the FM reception on my aftermarket car radio is very poor. The reduction in TX power out of Titahi Bay has really affected reception on 567kHz across the top of the South Island. On my travels north of CHC, the more powerful transmitters in Titahi Bay and Gebbies Pass provide better reception than the local regional AM transmitter along the route (Nelson). On my periodic travels between CHC and Mohua Golden Bay I mostly stream using the RNZ app than rely on broadcast radio because the quality is so much better. (Still need Spotify thru the Lewis Pass tho!)

When tramping, at least one person in out group had a small transistor radio - we could usually pick up an AM station at night after the sun had gone down. Otherwise, if it was a multi-day trip, I'd dig out the FT817 and grab a forecast off the mountain radio service.

I get that on the East Coast, some the Kordia hosted sites (Mt Erin and Whakapunake) may have had back-up generators for FM radio Transmission, but smaller secondary FM radio transmission sites may not have been so blessed.

I also get that DAB+ might be able to convey more information. However, the topography in parts of NZ would mean that lots of transmitter sites (with supporting power / data delivery systems that have been badly affected by the cyclone) would be needed to deliver this service to the back country.

In a similar vein, I was surprised that one of the regional councils had opted to use the cell network to convey the rainfall and river flow data. Cell sites need a lot of power and are vulnerable to natural disasters. In the past, I think councils used to use low power VHF or UHF links to deliver their environmental data. Simple systems that can be powered by solar panels and batteries.

MarkM536

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Ultimate Geek

#3048342 9-Mar-2023 21:00

freitasm:

I think the OP will benefit from a couple of weeks vacation to understand our rules.

I learned something new, I thought the red text "inactive user" was someone who has not logged into GeekZone for a few months.

On AM/FM/DAB about switching to DAB in the future:

DAB has a few seconds delay for most end users radios?

I use low power FM for my Christmas light display so people can listen from their car, but I notice a lot of modern cars buffer the FM data (making it unsalable for sound to light synchronisation).

I presume DAB is also going to have a layer of buffer on most radio receivers?

myfullflavour

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#3048358 9-Mar-2023 22:33

I noticed recently that Mediaworks had nuked their 1107AM frequency in BOP, which had much better coverage than the FM. You could drive Tauranga-Rotorua and keep listening to the station the whole time.

Previously the home of Radiolive / Magic / Today.

fe31nz

1232 posts

Uber Geek

#3048360 9-Mar-2023 22:57

MurrayM:

The radio and torch I have in my emergency kit are both wind-up so I don't have to worry about batteries for them.

It's always good to get your emergency kit out once a year and just check that everything is ok and nothing needs replacing.

Windup devices normally have a battery that gets charged by the dynamo that you wind. Those batteries are often low quality and fail after a relatively short lifetime. So you really do need to regularly test even windup devices. There may be some windup devices that only work while you are winding them and do not have a battery, but they would be pretty hard to use. Try pointing a torch at something while winding it at the same time. I tried that with my old windup torch after its battery had failed and it was useless.

fe31nz

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#3048361 9-Mar-2023 23:13

jarledb:

Loudness is a problem for sound quality for sure. But that is not what I mean when I say better than FM - although in Norway (one of the first countries to completely switch to DAB) the loudness war has stopped. And they have actually agreed to keep on the same loudness levels to make sure that it is a unified experience and things don't get loud or quiet just willy nilly as you switch stations.

As for FM. Even if you are in the perfect location to receive the signal (which you won't be), the dynamic range of FM (from quietest signal to loudest signal) is not great. Neither is frequency range.

Trust me, a high bandwidth DAB+ station broadcasting classic music is going to be indistinguishable from listening to a CD.

No, DAB+ will never be as good as listening to a CD. DAB+ uses the HE-AAC v2 codec to encode the audio data. That is a lossy codec, so the signal can never be as good as the data directly off a CD. CD data is not compressed at all.

It is possible that DAB+ might be as good as good (or better) than FM, but I have doubts, due to how HE-AAC (v1) is not so good. Most people who say FM is not so good have never actually listened to a good FM station on a good FM receiver. I have never actually heard DAB+ or HE-AAC v2 though, so I do not have any point of comparison.

Handle9

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#3048377 10-Mar-2023 05:09

deadlyllama:
Bung:

Marsden Point was private industry not government. Control costs money.

Yes but:

Documents show Refining NZ asked the government early last year what options it was looking when it came to the "strategic importance" of keeping the refinery open.

Officials in turn, asked the company "what would it take to make continuing to refine in NZ work?"
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-naive-to-shut-down-marsden-point-australian-analyst/I6WITZ3OSC3CSNXIKLYPN5DIZU/

Clearly it was looked at, there was some (redacted) path to keeping the darn thing open.

The “path” is you paying more tax to subsidise Marsden Points shareholders or you paying more for fuel.

That’s not attractive to voters so it’s not happening.

richms

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#3048494 10-Mar-2023 11:13

Handle9:

The “path” is you paying more tax to subsidise Marsden Points shareholders or you paying more for fuel.

That’s not attractive to voters so it’s not happening.

Closure of it and full reliance on imported was one of the things that made me decide to be less reliant on it.

Richard rich.ms

elpenguino

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#3049824 14-Mar-2023 09:11

anatokidave:

I think the Cyclone Gabrielle events have shown the importance of the KISS principle.

The beauty of AM is that it will provide reasonable regional coverage, and be able to be received on a device that does not need much power. I'm guessing that most RNZ AM infrastructure dates back to NZBC days and beyond, so they probably still have back-up generators on site. Most vehicle radios still have MW AM receivers (and they have a power source), so there is potential for good reach into the rugged hinterland that is not well served by FM or other services that require more infrastructure intensity. The use-case in NZ is that there are many small communities in sparsely populated rugged terrain, especially on the East Coast, inland Taranaki / King Country, and large parts of the South Island.

I still use AM in the car because the FM reception on my aftermarket car radio is very poor.

Some cars have an aerial amplifier hidden away somewhere and this amplifier needs to be sent 12 volts to work. This 12 volts is usually controlled by the radio to save power.

It's possible that when your radio was fitted, this connection was missed, hence, poor radio reception.

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