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tweake
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  #3251577 21-Jun-2024 11:41
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bagheera:

 

tweake:

 

its not so much the pumping of gas but running the till's. you can't even pay with cash because none of their tills work.

 

 

 

the other thing here is that even with next to no gas in the car (assuming your silly enough to run it that empty in the first place), you can still drive a long way, probably far enough to get to a gas station that has power. in fact my work car is sitting on empty at the moment, but still has 150km range left.

 

 

 

 

good luck getting to an open pump station on 150km over northland goat track roads  - if you look at the area affected by this outage there are a lot of Northland greater than 150km, and trust me, that 150km over the last bit will be closer to 100km on the bad windy road that the replacement to the sh1

 

 

think about it a bit more. if anyone is way out in the sticks they don't run their cars down that much. also most farms have their own fuel supply. plus whats the need to go into town if there is no power at work? plus they would never be owning ev's so the comparison is non-existent. 

 

ice cars simply have longer range than ev's do, so when the fuel supply is out for either of them, its less of a problem for ice than it is for ev's.




GV27
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  #3251592 21-Jun-2024 12:38
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tweake:

 

ice cars simply have longer range than ev's do, so when the fuel supply is out for either of them, its less of a problem for ice than it is for ev's.

 

 

I can put solar panels on my roof.

 

I can't put a petrol station in my garage. 


tweake
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  #3251603 21-Jun-2024 13:09
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GV27:

 

tweake:

 

ice cars simply have longer range than ev's do, so when the fuel supply is out for either of them, its less of a problem for ice than it is for ev's.

 

 

I can put solar panels on my roof.

 

I can't put a petrol station in my garage. 

 

 

yes you can put solar on the roof and charge an ev and its an excellent thing to do. however there is a big cost to that.

 

 ice you can just store spare fuel or have your own fuel tanks which is what most farms have. 




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  #3251734 21-Jun-2024 18:27
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mattwnz: There is going to be an investigation on why it fell over. It seems crazy that these sorts of things keep happening with all the red tape and compliance needed these days, and a lack of redundancy. 

 

Such a pity John Clarke isn't around any more, he could reprise his front fell off sketch into a tower fell over sketch: "That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.  There are a lot of these transmission towers all over the world and very seldom does anything like this happen".


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  #3251736 21-Jun-2024 18:32
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snj: Because it's certainly something that you think along the lines of "I'd want that fully off if it was me".

 

An awful lot of work is done on live wires to avoid cutting power to things, enter "hot stick" on Youtube to see lots of videos of it.


larknz
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  #3251741 21-Jun-2024 18:50
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The work was at ground level, there shouldn't have been any electrical risk.


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Ge0rge
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  #3251756 21-Jun-2024 19:00
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At least not until the electricity was down at ground level with them 🤣

larknz
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  #3251758 21-Jun-2024 19:04
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I think that you'll find that it had tripped out long before it reached ground level.


SomeoneSomewhere
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  #3251770 21-Jun-2024 20:42
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Very likely. They also have rather rapid and good differential protection (not dissimilar to RCDs, I believe) on the higher-voltage lines. 


ezbee
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  #3251787 21-Jun-2024 22:27
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The baseplates are in lovely conditon, so looks like all fastenings were removed?
Suppose this is hard to do without a very large spanner so not a thing a prankster or luddite could do.

 

You really just take all the fasteners off on every foot all at once to sandblast a tower like this?

 

So the foundations settling over decades so most of load on one side, a bit of wind from wrong direction. 
Once it starts leaning thats it.  

 

 

In an interview it was said the Northland Geothermal Plant did keep some parts of Northland going, but its not big enough.
Running another line to provide more redundancy would cost 1 million dollars per Km?
The power cut is said to have cost Northland $60M and counting in losses?

 

I suppose building another Geothermal Plant in Northland to expand capacity might be a better investment.

 

Financing extra capacity in the north may help if there is trouble further down the chain with transmission from south of Auckland too.


SomeoneSomewhere
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  #3251788 21-Jun-2024 22:45
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Transpower has an 'Asset Planning Report' that goes into some detail about their future plans and why. I don't think increasing transmission through to Northland is a particularly high priority; it's not a capacity constraint in normal or N-1 (i.e. single failure) conditions. They are actively courting generation in Northland because it does increase security, as well as a large battery bank in Bream Bay. This is mainly because less power into Northland means more power into Auckland itself.

 

It's also an expensive problem to fix as you say. A new line would probably go all the way through to Whangarei, being ~150km and requiring substation rework at both ends. Alternatively, splitting high-risk sections of the double circuit line into two single circuit lines is possible. That helps with location-caused foreseeable events like landslides but not really with maintenance issues.

 

Failure of both circuits of a double circuit line is not particularly common or likely; it happens every decade or two across the country. Northland has some local generation and the 110kV line, so while shortages are likely following a double failure, it's not as critical as somewhere like the BoP, Gisborne, or the three triple-circuit towers into Central Park. Many sections of the grid backbone are run as 2-3 single circuit towers or a double and 1-2 singles. This is both due to capacity, and that loss of two-thirds of a route simultaneously in the grid backbone could cause a cascade failure taking out the whole island.

 

 

 

Someone will be having severe questions about following of SOPs and/or the authoring of them after this. 


 
 
 

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gzt

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  #3251789 21-Jun-2024 22:51
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Good shot of the ground legs


nova
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  #3251814 22-Jun-2024 08:23
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ezbee:

 

The baseplates are in lovely conditon, so looks like all fastenings were removed?
Suppose this is hard to do without a very large spanner so not a thing a prankster or luddite could do.

 

You really just take all the fasteners off on every foot all at once to sandblast a tower like this?

 

So the foundations settling over decades so most of load on one side, a bit of wind from wrong direction. 

 

 

Agree, those baseplates look fine. If you look at the aerial photos in google maps you can see a slight change in angle of the lines towards the right at the tower in question: https://www.google.com/maps/@-36.4745487,174.4458945,415m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu So if the fasteners were removed from the left hand side, the tension in the lines was probably enough to tip it over towards the right.


raytaylor
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  #3252168 23-Jun-2024 17:58
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Does anyone know why they put up a temporary tower?  

 

It seems its taken them just as long to put up the temporary tower than it would have taken to replace the leg struts on the bent side and lift it back up with a crane.   

 

This NZ electricity documentary suggests they can erect a new tower in 8 hours if the ground work is already done.   

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9zdz780l-U  

 

  

 

Of interest is specifically 6:30
THE FIRST HALF-MILLION VOLT D.C. TRANSMISSION LINE (1965)





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larknz
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  #3252236 23-Jun-2024 18:57
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That assumes that they have a spare of the right configuration available,


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