Passing on the flush median [NZ traffic]

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626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#408686 24-Nov-2010 08:06

# 2 is a joke - some people have no idea. That is one of the stupidest ideas / laws created for some time. The idea was to improve the situation by showing waiting road users which direction you were going.

It didnt, it made the situation worse.

How in the hell are road users going to cope with a change of the giveway rule next year when they cant follow simple instructions at a roundabout??

freitasm

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Geekzone

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#408687 24-Nov-2010 08:12

I usally send a tweet out about bad drivers - name and shame kind of thing (sent after I park or if I am a passenger, or walking).

Yesterday I was entering a roundabout on the right lane (the one entering the roundabout). A car on my left was on the lane with a straight arrow. Not to my surprise (it seems you can "feel" the other driver is going to do something stupid before they even start) he accelerated and turned right, cutting in front of me, instead of going ahead.

By all means I am not a slow driver, keeping with the flow. It was not a morning rush time or anything. He was just being an idiot. The problem is that those idiots cause the accidents, but they don't seem to be caught when doing stupid things.

graemeh

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Uber Geek

#408698 24-Nov-2010 08:34

rscole86: I assume we are now reffering to 'courtesy crossings' where road users have right of way, not pedestrians.

Edit: Although this is the NZTA stance, Wanganui council state that Pedestrians have right of way. I am not sure on the legalities of council bylaws in regards to these situations. But I am assuming if it is not a State Highway, or major roadway, then the council can have different rules to that of the NZTA.

No, the council is not allowed to have rules that are different to NZTA. NZTA can also tell the council to remove a pedestrian crossing if they want to so it is quite clear who is the boss!

It's a little hard to find but pedestrian crossings are defined in the Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004. You can find this on the NZTA website.

The council is allowed to use the following to stop traffic for pedestrians
* pedestrian crossing
* school patrol
* traffic signals

A pedestrian crossing has to be marked in reflectorised white, have black and white poles within 2m of the crossing, have an amber globe or reflectorised orange sign and various other stuff.

The other option is "A road controlling authority may use one or more of the following means of assisting pedestrians to cross a roadway but which, unless installed in conjunction with one of the devices described in does not require a driver to stop their vehicle while a pedestrian crosses the roadway"

This seems to be the courtesy crossing and you will see it is quite clear that the driver is not required to stop.

Edit: If you are bored you can find the rules here http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/traffic-control-devices-index.html

SpookyAwol

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Ultimate Geek

#408722 24-Nov-2010 09:16

Where I live, in the middle of the town / shopping center we have a roundabout and each of the 4 roads has a 'courtesy' crossing.

Imagine the confusion.....

graemeh

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Uber Geek

#408729 24-Nov-2010 09:25

SpookyAwol: Where I live, in the middle of the town / shopping center we have a roundabout and each of the 4 roads has a 'courtesy' crossing.

Imagine the confusion.....

We have an intersection where all four roads have Stop signs. That's always good for a laugh.

freitasm

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#408731 24-Nov-2010 09:30

graemeh:
SpookyAwol: Where I live, in the middle of the town / shopping center we have a roundabout and each of the 4 roads has a 'courtesy' crossing.

Imagine the confusion.....

We have an intersection where all four roads have Stop signs. That's always good for a laugh.

That's easy - everyone stops and the giveway rules are followed (going straight has preference, then turning traffic). Obviously it should work if everyone indicated correctly.

This is better than in the U.S. where a four stop cross is a first in, first out basis. Who decides who got there first?

bazzer

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#408743 24-Nov-2010 09:40

freitasm: That's easy - everyone stops and the giveway rules are followed (going straight has preference, then turning traffic). Obviously it should work if everyone indicated correctly.

It's easy, but people are not used to it. They expect two of the roads to have stops, so they freak out and can't follow the rules. It's (basically) the same reason people have such problems at an uncontrolled t. They expect the terminating road to have a give way (9 out of 10 times it probably would) and treat it as such even though the rule is the opposite. Isn't a 4-way stop the same as an uncontrolled 4? Except I suppose you actually have to stop first.

freitasm: This is better than in the U.S. where a four stop cross is a first in, first out basis. Who decides who got there first?

Wow! Really? I guess the person with the biggest car got there first!

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rphenix

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#408813 24-Nov-2010 11:06

freitasm: Things that annoy me:

3.People who pull in front of you when your car is doing 50 KM/h on the main road, even though there is no other car behind you and they could easily wait one second for the free road.

That really annoys me, particularly when: They don't get up to speed quickly at all, and proceed to stay under the speed limit (in other words not only do I have to break to let them in without a crash, they are now slowing me when I was previously driving at the speed limit.

Bung

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#408935 24-Nov-2010 14:56

freitasm: This is better than in the U.S. where a four stop cross is a first in, first out basis. Who decides who got there first?

South Africa also use that rule. As a tourist in the Cape Town townships I was surprised at how well it worked. I was prepared to wait but other traffic always made sure that the proper order was adhered to. You do know whether the other (3) cars were there before you got there even if you don't know the order.

On the straight bits the taxi vans would change lanes in an instant so it wasn't all good :)

Byrned

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#408988 24-Nov-2010 16:18

freitasm:

That's easy - everyone stops and the giveway rules are followed (going straight has preference, then turning traffic). Obviously it should work if everyone indicated correctly.

This is better than in the U.S. where a four stop cross is a first in, first out basis. Who decides who got there first?

So what happens when at a crossroads when 2 cars get to the intersection at the same time (or nearly so as to be imperceptible), and are both going straight, but will clearly colide if they both go.

Nice little intersection that I see that is busy enough that this scenario happens daily. Who goes first? Usually the person that is used to the intersection because the other person is panicing, even thought they have right of way!

freitasm

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#408995 24-Nov-2010 16:28

Byrned:
freitasm:

That's easy - everyone stops and the giveway rules are followed (going straight has preference, then turning traffic). Obviously it should work if everyone indicated correctly.

This is better than in the U.S. where a four stop cross is a first in, first out basis. Who decides who got there first?

So what happens when at a crossroads when 2 cars get to the intersection at the same time (or nearly so as to be imperceptible), and are both going straight, but will clearly colide if they both go.

Nice little intersection that I see that is busy enough that this scenario happens daily. Who goes first? Usually the person that is used to the intersection because the other person is panicing, even thought they have right of way!

If they are both straight ahead they can't colide. If one is coming from the right side then this driver has the right to go first. As I said: first the ones going ahead, then the giveway rule follows.

Behodar

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#409016 24-Nov-2010 16:58

Yeah, "give way to the right" is a pretty simple rule!

photoman

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Master Geek

#409107 24-Nov-2010 19:48

illicit:
gzt: Another common problem in NZ:

When turning right at an intersection some people avoid the flush median entirely and veer into the right hand lane at the last moment to avoid the median strip.

Its because they are painted wrong, as below

They should be done more like this:

The people that gzt refer to are using the junction properly. By rights they can only enter over the broken white line. They are not supposed to cross the solid white line leading up to the junction.

Oblivian

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#409126 24-Nov-2010 20:08

photoman:
illicit:
gzt: Another common problem in NZ:

When turning right at an intersection some people avoid the flush median entirely and veer into the right hand lane at the last moment to avoid the median strip.

Its because they are painted wrong, as below

They should be done more like this:

The people that gzt refer to are using the junction properly. By rights they can only enter over the broken white line. They are not supposed to cross the solid white line leading up to the junction.

Ummm what? The triangle bit? nuh-uh.

Making a right turn from a right-turn bay
A right-turn bay is an area where vehicles that are turning right can wait until it is safe to turn, without holding up vehicles going straight through.

You can't use the right-turn bay to overtake a vehicle travelling straight ahead.

As you approach the right-turn bay, the road will be painted with a white triangle with diagonal lines inside it, followed by one or more right-turn arrows.

You can only drive over the white diagonal lines if you are turning right.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html

Flush medians are separate entities to these turning bays.

gzt

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#409381 25-Nov-2010 11:28

Illustrations (with car) from the official road code:

Right turning bay:

Flush median:

Source: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html

I like aspects of Illicit's visual solution to the problem where drivers wrongly believe it is illegal to drive over the flush median:

Illicit:

But, it leads to a visual interpretation inconsistency with the center flush median.

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