GST etc on imports

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#961955 6-Jan-2014 15:23

The thing that has stopped me buying retail is the ability to use my phone to quickly and easily see that I am about to get totally ripped off if I proceed with the purchase by being able to look up comparable items on aliexpress, ebay, amazon and trademe while in the shop.

Its amazing the number of people that dont do that and are happy to just pay what the shop has on the ticket without even asking for them to do better. That mindset has to change IMO.

Richard rich.ms

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#961957 6-Jan-2014 15:27

Agree, when I bought my new telly I went to Noel Leeming and just browsed all the stores for the TV I wanted and found DSE had the TV $300 cheaper so NL pricematched and I got FlyBuys.

Ragnor

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#961962 6-Jan-2014 15:38

Assume a NZ based online store and a Hong Kong based online store can purchase wholesale items from Asian/American/European manufacturers and ship/import to NZ for roughly the same price and thus sell to consumers at roughly the same price ex GST.... the NZ based store is clearly worse off having to add GST on top in any customers eyes if import duty/GST is bypassed (below threshold, labelled and low cost gift etc).

Do we really want to incentivise all our online retailers to relocate overseas in order to compete to then sell to kiwis?

How long till fishpond.co.nz and mightyape.co.nz give up and outsource to overseas so they can bypass GST and compete on an even playing field with amazon or greenmangaming?

It makes you think perhaps GST is not practical in a global economy any more... How happy would you be with removing GST and increasing income, capital/land or business tax?

Klipspringer

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#961965 6-Jan-2014 15:47

Ragnor:
How long till fishpond.co.nz and mightyape.co.nz give up and outsourceto overseas so they can bypass GST and compete on an even playing field with amazon or greenmangaming?

It makes your think perhaps GST is not practical in a global economy any more...

They are on an even playing field.

Mightyape and fishpond export their items to other countries too which includes to the US. (customers there can doge their GST from online stores in NZ)

Its just not economically viable for people in the US or UK to buy from our online stores in NZ.
Why is that? Well because we so ridiculously overpriced on everything in this country.

Lets not try fix the problem by creating more rules.

Ragnor

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#961967 6-Jan-2014 15:53

Klipspringer:

Mightyape and fishpond export their items to other countries too which includes to the US. (customers there can doge their GST too)

Many countries don't have a value added or sales tax, we've only had one for 28 years which isn't that long...

How is removing a tax more complicated? If anything it's less complicated.

Klipspringer

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#961969 6-Jan-2014 15:59

Ragnor:
Klipspringer:

Mightyape and fishpond export their items to other countries too which includes to the US. (customers there can doge their GST too)

Many countries don't have a value added or sale tax, we've only had one for 28 years which isn't that long... how is removing a tax more complicated? If anything it's less complicated?

Many countries? really? name one.
All I can think of is Oregon in the US, and its a state not a country. Think there is another one, cant remember.

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#961975 6-Jan-2014 16:12

Ragnor:
Klipspringer:

Mightyape and fishpond export their items to other countries too which includes to the US. (customers there can doge their GST too)

Many countries don't have a value added or sales tax, we've only had one for 28 years which isn't that long...

How is removing a tax more complicated? If anything it's less complicated.

GST is an efficient taxation method and makes the tax regime fairer. It is a cheaper tax to administer.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Ragnor

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#961976 6-Jan-2014 16:17

I think it's around 5 states in the US which are heavily used to bypass sales taxes for the rest of the country online.

Wikipedia has a tax page you can sort by the 6th column, not as many as I thought but still quite a few and quite a few with sales tax much lower than ours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

Ragnor

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#961978 6-Jan-2014 16:21

KiwiNZ:

GST is an efficient taxation method and makes the tax regime fairer. It is a cheaper tax to administer.

Sales taxes are highly regressive (people on lower incomes pay a higher % of their income) so it depends on what you mean by fair? and there's a large IRD bureaucracy around collecting GST, plus the burden on businesses so it's not clear that it is cheaper or efficient if you look at the whole picture.

blakamin

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#961979 6-Jan-2014 16:27

Fishpond already outsource.. I ordered a book from fishpond.com.au and it came from the UK. No NZ in sight.

richms

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#961982 6-Jan-2014 16:30

blakamin: Fishpond already outsource.. I ordered a book from fishpond.com.au and it came from the UK. No NZ in sight.

So did you pay GST on it tho? No point going thru a local reseller if they are just going to add their markup and collect GST IMO.

Richard rich.ms

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#961983 6-Jan-2014 16:30

Ragnor:
KiwiNZ:

GST is an efficient taxation method and makes the tax regime fairer. It is a cheaper tax to administer.

Sales taxes are highly regressive and there's a large IRD bureaucracy around collecting GST, plus the burden on businesses so it's not clear that it is cheaper or efficient if you look at the whole picture.

Before GST we had a hugely complicated sales tax, e.g. (before anyone challenges the percentages are examples only)12% on batteries, 23.2% on garden forks, 19.75% on nail polish, 21.98% on brown shoes, 23.7%on black shoes etc etc etc.Then there was the complicated mess that was products that were exempt Companies needed huge accounting departments to work it out collected it and pay it to IRD. With GST is flat rated and dead simple to calculate and no confusion as to what gets charged what.

It also has the advantage of making taxes somewhat optional compared to PAYE.

blakamin

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#961984 6-Jan-2014 16:32

richms:
blakamin: Fishpond already outsource.. I ordered a book from fishpond.com.au and it came from the UK. No NZ in sight.

So did you pay GST on it tho? No point going thru a local reseller if they are just going to add their markup and collect GST IMO.

Nope.

Ragnor

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#961985 6-Jan-2014 16:36

KiwiNZ:

Before GST we had a hugely complicated sales tax, e.g. (before anyone challenges the percentages are examples only)12% on batteries, 23.2% on garden forks, 19.75% on nail polish, 21.98% on brown shoes, 23.7%on black shoes etc etc etc.Then there was the complicated mess that was products that were exempt Companies needed huge accounting departments to work it out collected it and pay it to IRD. With GST is flat rated and dead simple to calculate and no confusion as to what gets charged what.

It also has the advantage of making taxes somewhat optional compared to PAYE.

Yes but I not saying we should go back to that system. I'm saying we should consider removing GST completely and compensating with adjustments to income/land/capital/business tax as GST becomes more impractical to collect and prone to being bypassed.

sbiddle

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#961986 6-Jan-2014 16:37

Ragnor: Assume a NZ based online store and a Hong Kong based online store can purchase wholesale items from Asian/American/European manufacturers and ship/import to NZ for roughly the same price and thus sell to consumers at roughly the same price ex GST.... the NZ based store is clearly worse off having to add GST on top in any customers eyes if import duty/GST is bypassed (below threshold, labelled and low cost gift etc).

Do we really want to incentivise all our online retailers to relocate overseas in order to compete to then sell to kiwis?

How long till fishpond.co.nz and mightyape.co.nz give up and outsource to overseas so they can bypass GST and compete on an even playing field with amazon or greenmangaming?

It makes you think perhaps GST is not practical in a global economy any more... How happy would you be with removing GST and increasing income, capital/land or business tax?

How long till NZ ends up like Tesco - they were caught a few years ago shipping mail order goods such as CDs and DVDs from the UK to Switzerland where they could then post them back to the UK and claim VAT free status! This basically meant they could sell UK stock online for less than other retailers.

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