Consumer Guarantees Act + Harvey Norman + Nokia

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3892 posts

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#433211 31-Jan-2011 14:01

BiDi: Earlier you said that you would not pay the $50. Now you say pay it?!

I'm confused

I don't pay stuff like that on principle.

If a repairer is not confident that they can fix the item then I take their request for money up front as a bad sign.

Having worked in the space I'm also aware of the trend for people bringing stuff in to be fixed, then when they come back and you tell them it will cost $300 after you've looked at it, they then don't want it fixed, don't want to pay your for looking at it and go and buy a replacement from someone else.

However your case is a little different from me taking my old stereo in to a repair shop I didn't buy it from in the first place.

In this case you're talking about a company policy being imposed by a sales person who probably has little idea what a telephone is, even less how to fix one.

In this case your phone looks fairly clean and I've be quite interested to hear the outcome of this one. So if you're willing to part with the 50 quid then let's see what happens.

I'd also be interested to see what the vendor rep on this list has to say before you take it back to HN.

I still don't accept that HN's $50 dollar policy in your case is either reasonable or appropriate given their CGA obligations to you.

Hope this causes less confusion.

D

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MikeB4

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#433212 31-Jan-2011 14:03

That phone is in poor condition and shows all the signs of being handled with out care. I believe you cannot blame Nokia if they were to decline any out of warranty claim.

The area around the Nokia label on the face seems quite bad from the photos and is indicative of impact damage.

This can damage the internal and void warranties.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#433218 31-Jan-2011 14:12

KiwiNZ: The area around the Nokia label on the face seems quite bad from the photos and is indicative of impact damage.

Interesting. I'd call that consistent with the OPs claim that it's damaged by keys in the girls pocket.

I will be very interested to hear what the vendor rep has to say about that.

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BiDi

62 posts

Master Geek

#433228 31-Jan-2011 14:44

KiwiNZ:

The area around the Nokia label on the face seems quite bad from the photos and is indicative of impact damage.

It's not impact damage. My daughter had put some tape around the phone at one stage and when she took it off, some paint come too.

joff_nz

446 posts

Ultimate Geek

#433231 31-Jan-2011 14:51

To me, it looks like a gouge across where the earpiece is, not consistent with keys only, and in fact very close to where the power button is.

Of course, it is very hard to tell from a picture.

But, with that in mind, I don't consider it unreasonable that HN would expect a bond to cover them in the case that impact damage has indeed caused the issue, because if it has, then they will have incurred the cost to repair it, and it can be very hard for them to recoup that from you the customer.

If it were me: i would gain agreement (in writing) that if the phone is sent away and the damage is not from impact/liquid/excessive force, and would have otherwise have been covered by the warranty if it were within 12 months, then it will be repaired at no cost and you will get your bond back.

If however it has sustained damage, then HN can happily keep your money.

If they agreed to this (they may not) then I would happily hand over a bond.

Where are you located BiDi? I beleive Nokia have repair centres in Auckland and CHCH don't they?

RSM

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Wannabe Geek

#433265 31-Jan-2011 16:02

Since BrentR (with a Nokia monica so we assume that he may be connected with same) has already got the info he asked for, maybe we should just wait to see if Nokia responds to Bidi's problem.

I have to say though that $50 is not much. But. When numbers of users get up to the few hundreds of thousands, it becomes significant and the CGA is certainly needed.

I would consider it good business to respond positivley to Bidi's predicament. Afterall, there is now more than one mobile phone manufacturer selling in NZ so it could be useful to......keep the customer satisfied??? She - and her Dad - will be buying more phones in the future thats for sure!

MikeB4

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#433310 31-Jan-2011 16:54

BiDi:
KiwiNZ:

The area around the Nokia label on the face seems quite bad from the photos and is indicative of impact damage.

It's not impact damage. My daughter had put some tape around the phone at one stage and when she took it off, some paint come too.

with respect it looks like striations across the area of the speaker and the Nokia name on the Face plate this would be consistent with a glancing impact with rough surface like a road or drive way. With the scratching also on the outer screen cover this is consistent with the phone being "skided" on such a surface which of course may have dislodged the button.

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BiDi

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Master Geek

#433328 31-Jan-2011 17:34

DonGould:

In this case your phone looks fairly clean and I've be quite interested to hear the outcome of this one. So if you're willing to part with the 50 quid then let's see what happens.

I'd also be interested to see what the vendor rep on this list has to say before you take it back to HN.

I still don't accept that HN's $50 dollar policy in your case is either reasonable or appropriate given their CGA obligations to you.

D

I am reluctant to pay $50 to HN. If I did, it seems that I would be relying on them to be impartial. However, if under the CGA the retailer should be passing the phone onto the vendor without charging me $50, which they are refusing to do, then why should I have confidence in them holding my $50 impartially?

I do understand that someone has to spend time and therefore money on assessing the phone. However, there is a numbers game here, which it seems me that the CGA is meant to avoid.

The retailer can ask the customer to come up with $50. From the retailer's point of view, they can estimate a percentage of these situations that will be repaid and a percentage that will not - its a business budgeting decision. From the customer's point of view, its a one-off event. The customer is not able to smooth the cost over 100's of different events. They either get their money back or they do not. Therefore, the stakes are higher for the customer than for the retailer.

I do not accept that what I am asking is unfair to the retailer. On the contrary, they can set their prices to cover this expense (which it seems they are obliged to do to comply with the law).

I would like to hear back from Nokia. I guess it may take a while for them to check on the details I provided. I presume that they can look and see whether this type of fault has been occurring in other phones like ours. I would also be interested in their impression about the state of the phone in the photos.

It would also be good to hear from HN, although I'm not holding my breath.

If nothing much happens in the next day or two I will write to HN.

I will continue to report what happens here. Right to the bitter end.

mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#433340 31-Jan-2011 18:39

nigelj:

As someone who has had a recent Nokia phone scratched by keys, looks like this phone has got off lightly ;). My personal opinion is to agree with you, especially with what I had said before, buttons like the on/off button are normally rated at a reasonably large quantity of cycles.

I am not sure if the on and off button would be pressed all that often, as many people leave their phone on most of the time, so some people would never press it.

That phone looks in fair condition, but it is hard to tell from the photos. My phone that I dropped also looked in perfect condition after I dropped it , as it had a case, but inside something had happened, and I assume they have indicators in the phone to detect for shock damage. Therefore the external condition may not be all that relevant. I guess that is one advantage of having an all glass phone for a manufacturer, where you can more easily tell if someone has dropped it.

nigelj

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#433344 31-Jan-2011 18:45

mattwnz:
nigelj:

As someone who has had a recent Nokia phone scratched by keys, looks like this phone has got off lightly ;). My personal opinion is to agree with you, especially with what I had said before, buttons like the on/off button are normally rated at a reasonably large quantity of cycles.

I am not sure if the on and off button would be pressed all that often, as many people leave their phone on most of the time, so some people would never press it.

Based on the user (school aged) I'd imagine on this Nokia it gets pressed a bit to change the profile from General<->Silent, but as I originally said in my first post, it's fairly unlikely that it'd be anywhere near the rated cycles of the button.

BrentR

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#433365 31-Jan-2011 20:09

Hi all.

The $50 charge is standard across the mobile industry to cover an initial inspection fee should the handset be deemed a non warranty repair. In the past when this wasn't taken many customers on finding their handset would not be repaired under warranty the end user would simply not bother having the handset fixed leaving the store to foot the bill with the charge.

It is certainly the customers prerogative whether or not they want to pay this bond as such, but this may result in the store not be willing to have the handset sent away.

In regards to the device "Not being fit for the purpose it was sold for" if this was the case then I would expect a large amount more of the handsets coming through as they're all manufactured the same way as other 3120c handsets and go through the same stringent testing.

I need to double check the handsets IMEI with our Care team tomorrow and will let you know how we'll proceed from there. :)

richms

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#433395 31-Jan-2011 21:11

I pressed the on off all the time on my old nokia, as it was what let you change profile between them. Something that I miss now on android.

Richard rich.ms

sbiddle

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#433399 31-Jan-2011 21:15

nigelj:
mattwnz:
nigelj:

As someone who has had a recent Nokia phone scratched by keys, looks like this phone has got off lightly ;). My personal opinion is to agree with you, especially with what I had said before, buttons like the on/off button are normally rated at a reasonably large quantity of cycles.

I am not sure if the on and off button would be pressed all that often, as many people leave their phone on most of the time, so some people would never press it.

Based on the user (school aged) I'd imagine on this Nokia it gets pressed a bit to change the profile from General<->Silent, but as I originally said in my first post, it's fairly unlikely that it'd be anywhere near the rated cycles of the button.

Getting a bit OT but the # key has done this on every Nokia for many years - no need to use the power button.

jbard

1377 posts

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#433413 31-Jan-2011 21:30

sbiddle:
nigelj:
mattwnz:
nigelj:

As someone who has had a recent Nokia phone scratched by keys, looks like this phone has got off lightly ;). My personal opinion is to agree with you, especially with what I had said before, buttons like the on/off button are normally rated at a reasonably large quantity of cycles.

I am not sure if the on and off button would be pressed all that often, as many people leave their phone on most of the time, so some people would never press it.

Based on the user (school aged) I'd imagine on this Nokia it gets pressed a bit to change the profile from General<->Silent, but as I originally said in my first post, it's fairly unlikely that it'd be anywhere near the rated cycles of the button.

Getting a bit OT but the # key has done this on every Nokia for many years - no need to use the power button.

Well my brand new Nokia 1800 doesn't, neither did my last Nokia - forget the model number now.

richms

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#433417 31-Jan-2011 21:33

2730 has not shortcut to profiles there, have to use the left menukey "go to" list to get to it. much prefered the older way of clicking a few times then holding the one key to change. And yes I used it a hell of a lot between ring only, ring and sms and silent. vibrate for calls only is another thing the new nokias cant do which again, sucks.

Richard rich.ms

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