When no cheques how do you purchase over $10,000 items

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2484178 15-May-2020 07:43

Lastman:

Cheques are clearly on the way out. Just saying there are some situations where they are still useful. Do all electronic bank transactions show up immediately, I didn’t think so.

Some show up straight away - some don't. It depends on who the 'from' and 'to' banks are. Going back some years, all payments were processed at the end of the day. Then it changed and payments are now batched processed several times intra-day. A payment from me to you if we're both say BNZ customers will happen almost instantly. Between different banks it may take a few hours or be done overnight.

https://www.bnz.co.nz/support/everyday-accounts/payments/processing-times-for-payments

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Lastman

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#2484180 15-May-2020 07:48

quickymart:

No, but cheques take a hell of lot longer. Bank cheques are a different story though. Maybe they could keep those around (with a fee) for people who might still want them.

That’s not the point. Currently, there’s not a great way of dealing with the situation I described without a cheque. Often the honesty factor has been established by past dealings or context, that’s not the issue. There’s not quite an obvious gap filler, extra cash, electronic transfer in front of the other party assuming you can get cell/internet access. People might trust you but they still want the deal done eg payment in hand.

MileHighKiwi

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#2484183 15-May-2020 08:02

If I sell something I want to see the cash in my account before letting the goods go. There's no way I would accept a personal cheque for anything. Cheques now take 6 days to clear, it's a completely inefficient method of payment. Somehow I have managed to buy $30k cars and make $60k house deposits using electronic payments.

The banks have a challenge on their hands though. For example, many NPO organizations receive up to 80% of their donations via cheque and many of the donors have an eftpos card at best and little to no knowledge of using the internet for anything. Some very creative solutions are required or some of these orgs will be starved of funds.

nztim

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#2484187 15-May-2020 08:24

This is disastrous for the elderly, those in their 80s (including my relatives) with no access to internet and cant get it even if they wanted to due to being rural - We are setting up online banking with my mother being a signatory which will mean they will completely lose their Independence.

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mudguard

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#2484190 15-May-2020 08:35

nztim:

This is disastrous for the elderly, those in their 80s (including my relatives) with no access to internet and cant get it even if they wanted to due to being rural - We are setting up online banking with my mother being a signatory which will mean they will completely lose their Independence.

It's inevitable unfortunately. That being said, if my parents in their sixties are comfortable with internet banking etc, then it will eventually become a non issue if it isn't forced out sooner.

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2484192 15-May-2020 08:38

Lastman:

Cheques are handy for buying second hand stuff above practical cash level. You can check the item, negotiate, pay by cheque. Take the goods, everyone’s happy. A online transfer in that situation is often not practical. I might only write a few cheques a year but they still cover some situations.

Bear in mind that a cheque is not a guarantee of payment. A cheque can be dishonoured by the issuer's bank - eg if there are insufficient funds to meet it. Or the payer can instruct their bank to cancel or 'stop' the cheque if it hasn't already been paid. Either way, the payee can be left high and dry.

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nztim

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#2484199 15-May-2020 08:42

mudguard:

nztim:

This is disastrous for the elderly, those in their 80s (including my relatives) with no access to internet and cant get it even if they wanted to due to being rural - We are setting up online banking with my mother being a signatory which will mean they will completely lose their Independence.

It's inevitable unfortunately. That being said, if my parents in their sixties are comfortable with internet banking etc, then it will eventually become a non issue if it isn't forced out sooner.

That assuming you can get broadband, there is still a huge digital divide in NZ

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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mudguard

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#2484200 15-May-2020 08:48

nztim:

That assuming you can get broadband, there is still a huge digital divide in NZ

Well I'd assume most can get broadband or mobile data. My grandmother is ninety something and can use Facebook. Not much more than that to be fair, but is someone going to keep providing a service (presumably subsidised by others) for an increasingly small pool of users?

And as just pointed, cheques can be cancelled. If someone paid me for a car by cheque I'd wait until it cleared before handing it over.

nztim

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#2484202 15-May-2020 08:51

mudguard:

nztim:

That assuming you can get broadband, there is still a huge digital divide in NZ

Well I'd assume most can get broadband or mobile data. My grandmother is ninety something and can use Facebook. Not much more than that to be fair, but is someone going to keep providing a service (presumably subsidised by others) for an increasingly small pool of users?

And as just pointed, cheques can be cancelled. If someone paid me for a car by cheque I'd wait until it cleared before handing it over.

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kotuku4

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#2484203 15-May-2020 08:52

One oddity is small clubs/ charitable organisations. Some banks require cheque account with three signatories, and statements to be posted.

I like to see that change, somehow.

quickymart

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#2484220 15-May-2020 09:19

nztim:

This is disastrous for the elderly, those in their 80s (including my relatives) with no access to internet and cant get it even if they wanted to due to being rural - We are setting up online banking with my mother being a signatory which will mean they will completely lose their Independence.

One way around that is to visit the branch. My grandmother (who never owned a computer in her life) would go to her local ASB each week (or get one of my relatives to do this) and withdraw all the money she needed in cash. She then used that for the next fortnight until her pension came in again.
Admittedly, she did live rurally, so it's not like there were hundreds of shops nearby or within walking distance to spend her money at.

PolicyGuy

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#2484224 15-May-2020 09:29

kotuku4:

One oddity is small clubs/ charitable organisations. Some banks require cheque account with three signatories, and statements to be posted.

I like to see that change, somehow.

This is a good point.

I was Treasurer of a small charity for quite a few years, and we paid most of our bills by cheque, with two signatures out of three authorised people required. Larger organisations can have "special" Internet banking software - it's actually been around since before the Internet - but I don't know how that's going to work for organisations that do less than a dozen payment transactions a month.

You have to have two (or more) signatories to pass an Audit, and without an Audit you can't get money from many donor organisations - including WINZ / MSD in those "good old days"

Hmmmmmm

frankv

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#2484242 15-May-2020 09:56

kotuku4:

One oddity is small clubs/ charitable organisations. Some banks require cheque account with three signatories, and statements to be posted.

When I was treasurer of a club, we banked with WestPac (I expect other banks do too) and "2 of 3 signatories" online payments was all covered. One person would authorise a payment, and the second person would confirm it, and then it would get paid.

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#2484244 15-May-2020 10:03

frankv:

kotuku4:

One oddity is small clubs/ charitable organisations. Some banks require cheque account with three signatories, and statements to be posted.

When I was treasurer of a club, we banked with WestPac (I expect other banks do too) and "2 of 3 signatories" online payments was all covered. One person would authorise a payment, and the second person would confirm it, and then it would get paid.

And to be clear - these are not the rules set out by the banks...banks will implement the rules you require for number of signatories and hold a list of said signatories in their systems.

The organisation will set out signatory rules and provide a document to the bank setting that out (i.e. board resolution or similar). Then it's set up taht way.

Same applies to internet banking. Authorising payments etc for a business/club etc can be a one/two/three etc process.

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nztim

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#2484245 15-May-2020 10:03

quickymart:

nztim:

This is disastrous for the elderly, those in their 80s (including my relatives) with no access to internet and cant get it even if they wanted to due to being rural - We are setting up online banking with my mother being a signatory which will mean they will completely lose their Independence.

One way around that is to visit the branch. My grandmother (who never owned a computer in her life) would go to her local ASB each week (or get one of my relatives to do this) and withdraw all the money she needed in cash. She then used that for the next fortnight until her pension came in again.
Admittedly, she did live rurally, so it's not like there were hundreds of shops nearby or within walking distance to spend her money at.

My Mother is going to become a signatory to get round this, and can handle their internet banking

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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