Is the Green Party the Communist Party in disguise?

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#1043357 14-May-2014 06:16

I'm just glad my wife was within 1 point X & Y from me, although I can't say that surprised me that she was.

I'm always taken by how the New Zealand 'left/right' spectrum is such a major shift sideways from the US 'left/right' - if you're a National supporter in New Zealand you're likely to still be 'left' leaning within the Democrats space in US politics.

I wouldn't call the Green Party the Communist/Socialist party, but I will say that under Norman/Turei they have moved into social justice more so than their more environmental focus under Fitzsimons/Donald, when social justice policies seemed to be addressed by lower ranked MP's such as Sue Bradford and to an extent Sue Kedgley...

... Or perhaps environmental concern is simply becoming more 'mainstream', and therefore no longer stands out as it once did?

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#1043361 14-May-2014 06:50

Ragnor: Political Compass is only 2 axis, not much better than right v left generalisations... most people have multi faceted views.

But in the end, your choice comes down to National or Labour, really. So whatever your multifaceted views are, your vote is quite one-dimensional.

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MikeB4

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#1043362 14-May-2014 06:54

SaltyNZ:
Ragnor: Political Compass is only 2 axis, not much better than right v left generalisations... most people have multi faceted views.

But in the end, your choice comes down to National or Labour, really. So whatever your multifaceted views are, your vote is quite one-dimensional.

The choices are wider than that and the choice can be split.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

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#1043364 14-May-2014 06:57

ajobbins:
I'm fully aware of the implications of what I am voting for. I've voted to the right in the past, and I may very well do in the future. I agree with elements of all the 3 main parties stance on various issues, and align my vote where I think the balance needs to come from. National have in many ways helped strength the economy, and I support many of their efforts there - BUT I also strongly oppose some of their less equitable policies, and just some of their attitudes, opinions and stances that make it clear what they (or at least some of them) really stand for, despite what popular policy they might have on the table today.

That is the kind of strategy I employ too. I have to say that National's management of the economy over the last recession was very good, and we at least seem to be coming out while other places are still in trouble. But on the other hand I have grave misgivings over their Big Brother spy-on-everyone stance and their breathtaking arrogance in simply sidestepping debate by putting through everything that anyone might disagree with under urgency. So at the last election I voted National locally but Greens for the party vote, marking the first time ever I voted for a Green party.

I feel more comfortable doing so these days now that the hardcore nutters have left in favour of some more normal people, but it does worry me that that they are very anti-everything that runs the economy in this country.

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SaltyNZ

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#1043365 14-May-2014 06:59

KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
Ragnor: Political Compass is only 2 axis, not much better than right v left generalisations... most people have multi faceted views.

But in the end, your choice comes down to National or Labour, really. So whatever your multifaceted views are, your vote is quite one-dimensional.

The choices are wider than that and the choice can be split.

Yes and no; see my next post. What I'm getting at is that realistically one of those two is always going to be the dominant power in any coalition.

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MikeB4

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#1043367 14-May-2014 07:09

SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
Ragnor: Political Compass is only 2 axis, not much better than right v left generalisations... most people have multi faceted views.

But in the end, your choice comes down to National or Labour, really. So whatever your multifaceted views are, your vote is quite one-dimensional.

The choices are wider than that and the choice can be split.

Yes and no; see my next post. What I'm getting at is that realistically one of those two is always going to be the dominant power in any coalition.

As I said in an earlier post I vote like.....

Candidate, I vote for the person whom I feel has the right skill set to best represent the constituency irrespective of their Party membership.

Party, I vote for the Party that has the best policies at the time of the election.

I have voted for three different Parties in the last three elections.

I also believe the Labour/National dominance is going wane in the medium term especially with the Green party taking bigger percentages.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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DaveDog

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#1043380 14-May-2014 08:33

As far as I am concerned a vote for Labour is a vote for Green's... And while I feel that way - I won't be voting Labour.

I wonder how many other people have that view - how many votes would they pick up from other parties (including the Greens) if they declared they won't be having any part of a coalition with them?

jonathan18

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#1043382 14-May-2014 08:36

Geektastic: I did the test too.

It's interesting to see whether one's perceptions of posters (from reading their posts) matches up with their location on this "test" - Geektastic - yours lines up just where I would have guessed! I'll offer mine up as a more extreme contrast to the others posted - any guesses as to which way I've voted the last few elections??!!

old3eyes

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#1043383 14-May-2014 08:38

code15: Thinking long term here:

Vote labour/greens to end up like a Nordic country.

You mean taxed to the hilt and cradle to grave welfare system??

Regards,

Old3eyes

jonathan18

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#1043386 14-May-2014 08:49

NZtechfreak:
Geektastic:
NZtechfreak:
alasta: People I know who support the Green Party are mostly young people who feel hard done by and would otherwise be disillusioned with politics. I think they see an opportunity to even the score with their employers or their elders, but they don't entirely understand the implications of what they're voting for.

You know an interesting subset of Greens voters. In contrast almost all I know are 30+ professionals. Very negative view you've garnered of Green voters from your apparently very limited sample size.

Personally I would say well over 50% of people voting don't entirely understand the implications of what they are voting for. You've met them - most of them don't seem terribly bright.

Sadly I largely agree with that statement, but that's across the board and encompassing all parties voters. To characterise Green voters generally as ignorant and disillusioned malcontents is obviously inaccurate (just as it would be to cast negative stereotypes generally against voters of other parties).

My observations have led me to conclude that, yes, many voters are ignorant and base their voting decisions on poor (or a complete lack of) reasoning, but I would argue that many of these tend to align with a conservative and/or status quo position. How many may just supoprt the incumbent simply becasue 'they seem to be doing all right" or "they speak well" (or, generally, just get more airtime)? Many in our population also tend to stick to what they know, so still see their options as essentially binary (Labour versus National), even under MMP.

MikeB4

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#1043388 14-May-2014 08:54

The prevailing attitude I find in NZ is that if someone votes differently to moi then they don't understand the issues or have no idea what they are doing.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Jas777

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#1043425 14-May-2014 09:07

old3eyes:
code15: Thinking long term here:

Vote labour/greens to end up like a Nordic country.

You mean taxed to the hilt and cradle to grave welfare system??

I think you find that the perception of younger people in Nordic countries is changing. The abuse of the system there is rife and people are starting to say it should change.

Sidestep

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#1043426 14-May-2014 09:09

KiwiNZ: The prevailing attitude I find in NZ is that if someone votes differently to moi then they don't understand the issues or have no idea what they are doing.

I think that attitude's everywhere, not just NZ..

MikeAqua

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#1043483 14-May-2014 10:16

"The rich keep getting richer under national" etc

The rich get richer under any government, but when the left of centre parties are in opposition they highlight, that the rich are getting richer. It's a fact of life that some people are good at accumulating wealth. The real problem is that the poor are getting poorer.

It is possible in a wealthy economy with heavy taxation to have a socialist system that functions reasonably well, still allows people to accumulate wealth and provides an incentive to take risk and innovate. This is what the Nordic countries have historically managed to achieve. It should be noted that the rich get richer in Nordic countries too, but a decent standard of living is provided to almost everyone, due to strong and expensive social policies.

Those countries have abundant natural resources which they exploit extensively. Forests, fish, aquaculture, oil, geothermal electricity. They have developed export industries based on these industries e.g. Nokia, Ikea, Marel and countless companies who sell expertise and technology in the oil, fishing and aquaculture sectors.

The wealth and IP arising from natural resources have enabled their economies to afford socialist policies, and provide incomes high enough that you can tax the stuffing out of people and despite the high cost of living in those countries they can still have a nice lifestyle.

The greens would like to introduce a whole lot of socialist policies without exploiting natural resources. How will they fund them?

You can tax the rich for a while, but that isn't actually creating the wealth you need to support social policy.

Mike

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#1043515 14-May-2014 10:42

jonathan18:
Geektastic: I did the test too.

It's interesting to see whether one's perceptions of posters (from reading their posts) matches up with their location on this "test" - Geektastic - yours lines up just where I would have guessed! I'll offer mine up as a more extreme contrast to the others posted - any guesses as to which way I've voted the last few elections??!!

I was hoping to be further towards the top right corner. Must work on that!

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