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kingdragonfly

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  #3093818 23-Jun-2023 09:28
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Notice that wood "squishes" and carbon fiber shatters

Hydraulic press vs carbon fiber




Bung
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  #3093890 23-Jun-2023 10:17
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Canuckabroad:

The current scenario proposed was that there was catastrophic failure at the time when the vessel stopped sending communications, between 1:45 and 2:00 into the mission.  At that depth there wouldn't have been any suffering.  It is a small but significant mercy that they probably weren't aware of what was happening.



The US Coast Guard mentioned that it would have occurred before their sonar buoys were deployed or else the implosion would have been detected. Why didn't the sonar equipment on the Oceangate ship hear it?

Canuckabroad
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  #3093899 23-Jun-2023 10:43
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My best guess is that the reason sonar buoys are required for precision is because there are limits to how effectively you can pick up some sounds from almost 4km below the surface - having additional sensors and having a wider range for signals to arrive make it more likely to be noticed - just like how larger telescopes (including telescopes with multiple arrays) work better than smaller ones.




wellygary
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  #3093945 23-Jun-2023 10:48
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Looks like the US Navy SOSUS network heard the implosion days ago , 

 

"An implosion was heard near the site where debris was located on Thursday, about 500m from the Titanic shipwreck, soon after the sub disappeared, according to the report.

 


The system is used to monitor enemy submarines, and the Navy asked that it not be identified due to national security concerns, the Journal reported.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titan-submarine-implosion-navy-debris-microphones-b2362685.html

 

 


Canuckabroad
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  #3093951 23-Jun-2023 11:09
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Interesting question.  If there had been this evidence of a likely implosion days ago, would we have seen the same urgent international deployment of resources by those hoping to rescue survivors (with the related costs which are now being mentioned)?  Clearly nobody here is in a position to decide what is appropriate for military to reveal regarding their sonar capability - but the way it's presented here as "Oh yeah, we heard about that days ago but didn't think it was appropriate to tell you then (but it's now fine?)" isn't ideal.


Bung
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  #3093954 23-Jun-2023 11:23
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There have been complaints about the US delay in responding to offers of help. Maybe the situation was being managed.

"But US government bureaucracy has hampered rescue efforts as essential equipment remains stuck on the island of Jersey, while the required paperwork is signed for it to be imported."

Eva888
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  #3093958 23-Jun-2023 11:29
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It’s a blessing for the families to hear that the implosion happened very soon after the dive thus negating any horrible visions of suffering. If that was my kid I’d feel nauseous thinking about my baby in that cold, dark place terrified for days. Small comfort and I hope the reports remain this way. Nothing to gain from getting into gory possibilities that are flooding my own mind.

 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
wellygary
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  #3093961 23-Jun-2023 11:32
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"A U.S. Navy acoustic system detected an ‘anomaly’ Sunday that was likely the Titan’s fatal implosion, according to a senior military official.

 

The Navy went back and analysed its acoustic data after the Titan submersible was reported missing Sunday. Coast Guard officials on Thursday announced that the craft suffered a catastrophic implosion, killing all five aboard.

 

That anomaly was “consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the TITAN submersible was operating when communications were lost,” according to the senior Navy official.

 

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive acoustic detection system.

 

The Navy passed on the information to the Coast Guard, which continued its search.

 

AP

 

The surveillance network is not designed to look for things imploding, its listening for the cavitation of Submarines,  plus it will be heavily automated, the days of having sonar operators with headsets on listening live is likely long gone...

 

My read is that once it went missing the navy went back and listened to the data from when it entered the water, they heard something that could be an implosion,  and told the Coast Guard, 

 

The Coast Guard had other information ( the apparent banging at 30 minutes intervals)  and weighed up to continue to search, 

 

Maybe they had decided  they were looking for wreckage, may be  not, but I guess they concluded that it was likely best to continue to search no matter whet they found..

 

 


  #3094020 23-Jun-2023 11:55
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the thing with information like that is it has to be analysed, determined if its what you need, then it needs to be declassified, which would again involve being analysed, but then also to determine if releasing that information would give away any information about the capibilities of the system it was recorded on.

 

Its not a simple process.

 

Bung: 
The US Coast Guard mentioned that it would have occurred before their sonar buoys were deployed or else the implosion would have been detected. Why didn't the sonar equipment on the Oceangate ship hear it?

 

What sonar equipment is on the oceangate ship? if the implosion was outside the frequency range of the sonar set, wasnt being listened to, wasnt recorded, any manner of different things.


gzt

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#3094075 23-Jun-2023 12:42
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Implosion while descending. Ockham's Razor wins again.

neb

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  #3094095 23-Jun-2023 13:38
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Canuckabroad:

Interesting question.  If there had been this evidence of a likely implosion days ago, would we have seen the same urgent international deployment of resources by those hoping to rescue survivors (with the related costs which are now being mentioned)?

 

 

Going from the discussion from another site of how this works (referenced earlier), and the statement:

 

 

“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,”

 

 

my feeling is that, with a good idea of where and when to look, they managed some time after the event to dig some signal out of the noise that could represent the implosion. They'd also have to carefully manage the release of information so as not to reveal to the Russians and Chinese just how much they can (or can't) observe.

neb

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  #3094097 23-Jun-2023 13:44
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Bung: "But US government bureaucracy has hampered rescue efforts as essential equipment remains stuck on the island of Jersey, while the required paperwork is signed for it to be imported."

 

 

If it's US Navy gear used to detect or interfere with Russian submarines it's probably classified and controlled up the wazoo, so there'd be a huge amount of red tape to deal with in shipping it to a foreign country and making sure none of those goddam furriners the place is crawling with gets within a mile of it.

neb

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  #3094100 23-Jun-2023 14:00
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Handsomedan:

There's a few bits and pieces that have been reported to be not fit for purpose, too...

 

 

Someone elsewhere mentioned zip ties being used for wiring, vs. the flourinert-filled cables in the Deepsea Challenger... it just seems like they DIY'd everything possible even when readily-available off-the-shelf parts were available:

 

 

* Minimum operating life 90 days

 

* Detectable in deep sea down to more than 20,000ft (6,096m)

 

* Detection range up to 16nm (29km) which is based on a depth of 3,500m

 

 

So pretty much exactly what they would have needed, but why bother when we can do that ourselves with a Raspberry Pi and some zip ties.

Bung
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  #3094105 23-Jun-2023 14:10
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I was referring to this British company

"The deep-sea-surveying company Magellan said Tuesday that it'd had a specialist team and vital rescue equipment waiting to leave the Channel Islands since Monday evening — but that it was still waiting on approval, the outlet said."

Batman
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  #3094116 23-Jun-2023 14:48
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wellygary:

 

Looks like the US Navy SOSUS network heard the implosion days ago , 

 

"An implosion was heard near the site where debris was located on Thursday, about 500m from the Titanic shipwreck, soon after the sub disappeared, according to the report.

 


The system is used to monitor enemy submarines, and the Navy asked that it not be identified due to national security concerns, the Journal reported.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titan-submarine-implosion-navy-debris-microphones-b2362685.html

 

 

 

 

looks like the cat's out of the bag!


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