The sim and airtime is not a cost to 2degrees like that, and those phones are pretty cheap as it is. They have made the packaging cheaper on the $50 one I saw, just a blister pack.
However, they will probably still want $35 for a replacement genuine charger, and $40 for a replacement genuine battery when you need them. Which is worse than the replacement parts costs scam that car's have.
Personally, I think the $50 bond system is open to abuse from the sub-contracted repairer as they can effectively say user abuse to almost everything.
From my experience big manufacturers are usually happier to "write off" products, and it's often the man-in-the-middle operations that are typically the most difficult to deal with.
It's only about $30 to go to the tribunal. Even if you did lose (although, after reading this thread I think you have a good case), it's probably going to cost the other party (Nokia?) a lot more than that to have someone simply show up to the tribunal - I think they're based in Auckland. Apparently, a no show at a tribunal is effectively the same as pleading "guilty" - or so I've read.
Well, I was wondering about my next move and this comment sort of raises the question I have in mind.
Supposing that Nokia decline to repair the phone under warranty (I hope not, but just imagine they do). Who then should I be complaining about?
It seems to me that HN have more to answer for: they handled the sale to my daughter; they refused to pass the phone on to Nokia without a deposit; they misinformed me about the cost of lodging a complaint.
In contrast, Nokia have come forward and offered to be helpful. They seem to me to be acting fairly.
Personally, I really really hope they just fix our phone.
However, from the point of those watching this discussion, I imagine that you would like to see the outcome of an appeal to the DT. I mean, this discussion is really about: what is the current interpretation of the CGA, what are retailers doing and what is tolerated by those in authority, right?
So, what do you think Geeks? If Nokia say 'no', should I:
1) ask HN one last time to fix it, and if they won't take it to the DT? 2) take Nokia to the DT? 3) take it on the chin and get on with my life?
minimoke: ROFL: "hassle free replacement cover". You already get that with?the?CGA.?The?retailer?is?supposed to repair, replace or refund. How much more hassle free can you get than that.?
The "Hassle free cover" is actually a promise to not make?your?life difficult?like?retailers do with their pleb customers who won't stump up with?the?extra cash.
That might?seem?an outlandish statement but manufactures and importers are required, under the CGA to have?reasonable?spare parts and repair?facilities?available?for a?reasonable?time - unless the consumer is otherwise told. That?should?mean quick repairs -?none?of this dicking around you'll so often experience. A repair?should?already be hassle free. The only reason it isn't is because?the?retailers and?their?suppliers choose to make life difficult for the consumer. When you make life difficult?the?"Extended Cover" looks like a really good option.
My only experience with a faulty phone, and its repair, was in 2004 on a Sanyo 4920. 4 months old, one day it just stopped charging. Took to back to Bond and Bond, they sent it away.
2 weeks later was informed fault had been found, and spare parts were "on order". 3 weeks later was informed spare parts were installed, but fault still existed. 4 weeks later was issued with a new replacement handset (not a retail package - just the phone).
Not sure how long 4 weeks compares to average turnaround on repairs? I had to buy a new phone anyway as it was dragging on so long.
zaptor: Personally, I think the $50 bond system is open to abuse from the sub-contracted repairer as they can effectively say user abuse to almost everything.
Exactly the reason that the CGA was written for.
The whole point is to force retailers to sell robust products that go the distance and provide good back up services for their products and factor the support into the selling price.
Which btw does happen! They're just trying to have it both ways. I can go to price angles web site and get dozens and dozens of cheap phones from China. iPhone knock offs for a 1/3 of the price of the real thing. Sure there are some issues with them. But if retailers and vendors don't want to see a flood of these things in the country then they need to sort this crap and pick up the game. The HN rep should have been on GZ shutting down the OP within minutes of his post. Personally I spent $5k there last month... I'll be thinking twice now about where I spend the next $1.
CGA is designed as much to protect the good retailers and vendors from fly by nighters who just import the cheapest junk they can from OS.
Where it falls down is that not enough people come on public forums like GZ and confirm they've had crap service from SalesPersonX at StoreY in LocationZ. The more stories that are out there, the more we can improve the service levels for everyone till every seller gets the message or goes out of business.
Following 10 pages of crap about TiVO, I'm sure that someone from TiVO and Telecom are thinking a bit harder about what they do with that product.
Following 10 pages of crap about a Nokia phone owned by some teen, I'm sure that someone from Nokia is think a bit harder about its relationship with Ben and HN and kinda hoping that it will be someone from B&B or NL or DSE that's in the CGA firing line next.
The retailers are a strong lobby group as well. If they don't like the CGA the way it is then they can lobby to repeal it and come up with a law that suits their interests - good luck with that.
As for the comments about brain dead idot sales people at HN, DSE, NL, BB, etc, I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash for a minute. We spend billions of dollars on public education so ppl can learn to read. If they can't read the ACT then bugger off back to school and get a teacher to help you with it so you can get a job. Stop spending all lunch time texting your mates on mobile phones and learn something!
/Friday Morning Rant.
Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!
BiDi: 1) ask HN one last time to fix it, and if they won't take it to the DT?
Your relationship is not with vendor.nz. Infact you don't even know where that phone came from. You're just assuming that vendor.nz provided it to your retailer.
Your relationship is with the retailer. What the vendor does is up to the retailer and the vendor, not you.
In this case if I was the dumb vendor I'd have already flicked you a phone to use while we sort out what the deal is with yours.
If I was the dumb retailer I would have also sorted you out with a phone to use while we sort yours.
If I was the even dumber network provider then I've have sorted you out with a phone to use while we sort out yours!
How much money has your teen spent on making calls and texting while this crap has been rolling on?
Sure, it wouldn't have been a new one and it might have been the size of a small brick, but it would have been a phone and would have left you feeling much happier!
Getting back to the question...
You really need to read the CGA act and figure out which items actually apply and what you're challenging. You don't need a lawyer for that, you just need to spend a couple of hours reading. Hell, if I was you and she was my teen, I'd be making her do the reading as well and between the two of you figure out your case and present it back here on GZ for ppl to give their views.
Hell even if this wins nothing, we might all learn something!
Forget about the govt dept advice web site. It's only interpretation by some public servant and not the actual act.
D
Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!
IlDuce: Not sure how long 4 weeks compares to average turnaround on repairs? I had to buy a new phone anyway as it was dragging on so long.
One of the points in the act was 'reasonable time' unless they've changed it since I last read it.
Reasonable is based on usage. To take 3 weeks to fix a lawn mower that you use once a week isn't to unreasonable.
However for something that you all the time it's a different story. A washing machine, for example, has to be fixed quicker than a lawn mower because you use it more often (well I do, don't know about you other smelly geeks :p )
You can get round this by providing a loan washing machine, lawn mower, etc.
In your case you should have been provided with a replacement phone to use while yours is sorted.
Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!
No charge, no fuss, no delays. Well done Nokia! Thank you.
The paperwork we got back with the phone describes its condition as "dents in the top left, scratches to main screen". The job sheet says "Power switch has lift from solder pads. Re-solder power switch".
So that sounds pretty much the fault that Brent suggested earlier. It does not sound as though it was difficult for them to fix either, which I guess is good for everyone.
On the other hand, Harvey Norman have not responded in any way to my letter of complaint (to Head Office Auckland, nine days ago). So I think that pretty much confirms that the behaviour of the person we had to deal with in the store is considered acceptable to the company. If that is true, it means that HN has a commitment to customer dissatisfaction! Well that's working for me.
So to sum up, I would like to award a brickbat to HN and a bouquet to Nokia and I will have to wait for another occasion to find out how the Disputes Tribunal would interpret the CGA.
I received a call today from Debbie at CA, in response to my letter. She was very sorry to have taken so long to get back to me and explained that the delay had been due to the Christchurch earthquake. She explained that they would usually respond within 14 days to a communication such as mine.
Debbie was able to give me a lot of information about this situation, so I would advise anyone in a similar situation to contact Consumer Affairs for advice straight away. Unfortunately, they cannot help you by enforcing the law; you have to do that yourself.
Debbie told me that they had conducted a lot of 'mystery shopping' exercises in the main centres recently and found that there are many problems with the way that retailers operate. In particular, she said that sales people often were not good at explaining the rights of consumers under the law and that the details of extended warranties were not well understood.
The message I take from all this is that people who find themselves up against a retailer who is playing 'hard to get' should speak up. It is important that the individual makes a public fuss about what is happening. Geekzone has proved to be a good forum in this case.
My letter will now be passed on, by Consumer Affairs, to the Commerce Commission, so if I hear anything else I will report it back here.
It is also worth noting that my letter addressed to the General Manager at Harvey Norman's main Auckland office has never been acknowledged.
It is also worth noting that my letter addressed to the General Manager at Harvey Norman's main Auckland office has never been acknowledged.
I have found HN quite good to deal with once you get to the manager. However I believe they are franchises, so you may need to get hold of the manager at the franchise store you purchased from. They should have however forwarded your letter to them. I have found they will phone you, rather than email you, to resolve any issues. You may have scared them with your letter, so they may have been waiting for a reply from the CC or CA before they were going to reply to try and resolve the issue you are having.
Warranties are interesting. With phones they always seem to give up after the warranty expires. Now you know why some offer lower warranties than other although Nokia has a good name.
I'd question why the on/off button broke. Who ever turns their phone off and on like a light switch?
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