How many times have you guys had expensive consultants coming into your workplace for transformation projects and how did it turn out?

Forums › Off topic › How many times have you guys had expensive consultants coming into your workplace for transformation projects and how did it turn out?

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#312789 17-May-2024 11:53

Just read that Waka Kotahi had PWC consultants coming in to meld together its two new vehicle-spotting technologies, only to have to pull them back apart.

Waka Kotahi's total spend with PWC has risen from $4.4m in 2021, to $11.5m last year. This included $3.1m for mostly "customer engagement and change-related activities" on the $1.3 billion national ticketing project.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/516853/waka-kotahi-pays-pwc-to-meld-together-technologies-then-again-to-pull-them-apart

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

1 | 2

1472 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3231683 17-May-2024 12:00

I just don't get companies who get the so-called consultants involved in workplace transformations when these consultants know nothing about your company structure, policy, culture, inner workings, the ICT systems and platforms, and yet the best/most suitable people to get involved in such transformation are actually right there all along - the employees.

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3231690 17-May-2024 12:03

mrgsm021:

I just don't get companies who get the so-called consultants involved in workplace transformations when these consultants know nothing about your company structure, policy, culture and inner workings and yet the best/most suitable people to get involved in such transformation are actually right there all along - the employees.

Less risk for senior management/decision makers.

They can say that it was not their fault for the multi-million dollar transformation project failing because they got in the best consultants/advisory team in the industry.

Then 18 months later, when they get pushed, they'll be a senior, plush director role waiting for them at Deloitte.

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

tweake

2397 posts

Uber Geek

#3231692 17-May-2024 12:12

i can understand bringing in consultants when the workplace doesn't have the tech or knowledge in house.

however i deal with some companies that have a consultant and that consultant is one i've dealt with before, and their history is rather poor. they tend to "read from the script" rather than actually investigating the situation and dealing with that.

just because they are professionals or a consultant doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3231693 17-May-2024 12:15

tweake:

i can understand bringing in consultants when the workplace doesn't have the tech or knowledge in house.

however i deal with some companies that have a consultant and that consultant is one i've dealt with before, and their history is rather poor. they tend to "read from the script" rather than actually investigating the situation and dealing with that.

just because they are professionals or a consultant doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

I once asked one of our senior consultants (from the top 4) how long have they been working on the tool.

He said that just started literally 6 months ago.

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

wellygary

8342 posts

Uber Geek

#3231694 17-May-2024 12:20

The biggest problem with "consultants" is that it is usually a sign that the company/Government department doesn't know exactly what it wants, and what it available in the marketplace. -

Additionally major government OCT projects seem to always suffer significant scope creep- which tends to blow out timelines and budgets, and occasionally result in the project not delivering at all

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3231696 17-May-2024 12:25

wellygary:

The biggest problem with "consultants" is that it is usually a sign that the company/Government department doesn't know exactly what it wants, and what it available in the marketplace. -

Additionally major government OCT projects seem to always suffer significant scope creep- which tends to blow out timelines and budgets, and occasionally result in the project not delivering at all

Or that the senior decision makers aren't not detailed enough to know the difference.

We had numerous people suggesting that we shouldn't go with one of the big four and the decisions was made to go with one of the big four over the local agency.

The Big four have these senior directors that are excellent at selling their services in the language that the SLT loves to hear.

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
8875 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3231755 17-May-2024 12:42

mrgsm021:

I just don't get companies who get the so-called consultants involved in workplace transformations when these consultants know nothing about your company structure, policy, culture, inner workings, the ICT systems and platforms, and yet the best/most suitable people to get involved in such transformation are actually right there all along - the employees.

Spot on. In the mid-1990s I was working in Corporate & Institutional Banking in Auckland for one the big Aussie-owned banks. The bank decided (probably in HO in Australia) that it would be a good idea to re-structure the division, so they hired US-based consultants McKinsey & Co (who didn’t even have an office in NZ) to give advice. This was intended to be an operational restructure - not necessarily a retain/fire review.

McKinsey brought in 4-5 ‘bright young things’ from the US. They spent a couple of months watching us and talking to us in interviews and workshops, getting us to keep work-activity diaries - and generally taking up a large proportion of our time. As you say, they had no idea about our business or our corporate culture and practices - let alone NZ culture and business practices, the legal framework etc. They were staying in hotels and were basically on a ‘very cushy number’. The whole thing must have cost an absolute bloody fortune.

A couple of months after they went home, their report with recommendations was received. The recommendations were never implemented because in the meantime the wider bank had moved on and made its own local restructuring decisions.

I know that was 30 years ago but I’m sure this sort of thing still goes on.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3231756 17-May-2024 12:47

eracode:

mrgsm021:

I just don't get companies who get the so-called consultants involved in workplace transformations when these consultants know nothing about your company structure, policy, culture, inner workings, the ICT systems and platforms, and yet the best/most suitable people to get involved in such transformation are actually right there all along - the employees.

Spot on. In the mid-1990s I was working in Corporate & Institutional Banking in Auckland for one the big Aussie-owned banks. The bank decided (probably in HO in Australia) that it would be a good idea to re-structure the division, so they hired US-based consultants McKinsey & Co (who didn’t even have an office in NZ) to give advice. This was intended to be an operational restructure - not necessarily a retain/fire review.

McKinsey brought in 4-5 ‘bright young things’ from the US. They spent a couple of months watching us and talking to us in interviews and workshops, getting us to keep work-activity diaries - and generally taking up a large proportion of our time. As you say, they had no idea about our business or our corporate culture and practices - let alone NZ culture and business practices, the legal framework etc. They were staying in hotels and were basically on a ‘very cushy number’. The whole thing must have cost an absolute bloody fortune.

A couple of months after they went home, their report with recommendations was received. The recommendations were never implemented because in the meantime the wider bank had moved on and made its own local restructuring decisions.

I know that was 30 years ago but I’m sure this sort of thing still goes on.

Reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiOUojVd6xQ

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

Behodar

10515 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3231757 17-May-2024 12:47

Re: the question in the subject line.

In 2009 we had a consultant come in and promote a new "mobile strategy". The presentation was at a conference centre and featured a lot of A0 size posters on the walls.

To this day we have introduced a total of one phone app (which was really a website in disguise) and then discontinued it again because one of the managers didn't like it.

networkn

Networkn
32365 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3231758 17-May-2024 12:48

Consider the story of the $8 million replacement for a $20 dollar fan…

A toothpaste factory had a problem. They sometimes shipped empty toothpaste boxes without the tube inside. This challenged their perceived quality with the buyers and distributors. Understanding how important the relationship with them was, the CEO of the company assembled his top people. They decided to hire an external engineering company to solve their empty boxes problem. The project followed the usual process: budget and project sponsor allocated, RFP, and third parties selected. Six months (and $8 million) later they had a fantastic solution – on time, on budget, and high quality. Everyone in the project was pleased.

They solved the problem by using a high-tech precision scale that would sound a bell and flashlights whenever a toothpaste box weighed less than it should. The line would stop, someone would walk over, remove the defective box, and then press another button to re-start the line. As a result of the new package monitoring process, no empty boxes were being shipped out of the factory.

With no more customer complaints, the CEO felt the $8 million was well spent. He then reviewed the line statistics report and discovered the number of empty boxes picked up by the scale in the first week was consistent with projections, however, the next three weeks were zero! The estimated rate should have been at least a dozen boxes a day. He had the engineers check the equipment; they verified the report as accurate.

Puzzled, the CEO traveled down to the factory, viewed the part of the line where the precision scale was installed, and observed just ahead of the new $8 million dollar solution sat a $20 desk fan blowing the empty boxes off the belt and into a bin. He asked the line supervisor what that was about.

“Oh, that,” the supervisor replied, “Bert, the kid from maintenance, put it there because he was tired of walking over to restart the line every time the bell rang.”

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
8875 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3231760 17-May-2024 12:56

turtleattacks:

Reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiOUojVd6xQ

Ha - McKinsey! There y’go.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Senecio

2718 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3231762 17-May-2024 13:23

There's a time and a place for consultancy services, unfortunately they are often used inapropriately.

If a company is bringing consultants in to review/improve processes then its almost always a bad use of consiltants. The best use is when you are implementing something new and you just need experienced people to support your internal resources. Upgrading key software like an ERP system comes to mind.

turtleattacks

919 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3231763 17-May-2024 13:25

Senecio:

There's a time and a place for consultancy services, unfortunately they are often used inapropriately.

If a company is bringing consultants in to review/improve processes then its almost always a bad use of consiltants. The best use is when you are implementing something new and you just need experienced people to support your internal resources. Upgrading key software like an ERP system comes to mind.

Why not just hire new internal resource to implement it?

----

Creator of whatsthesalary.com

Senecio

2718 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3231766 17-May-2024 13:27

turtleattacks:

Senecio:

There's a time and a place for consultancy services, unfortunately they are often used inapropriately.

If a company is bringing consultants in to review/improve processes then its almost always a bad use of consiltants. The best use is when you are implementing something new and you just need experienced people to support your internal resources. Upgrading key software like an ERP system comes to mind.

Why not just hire new internal resource to implement it?

Because its a project with a start and finish date. What do you do with them when its over?

SaltyNZ

8241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3231769 17-May-2024 13:36

mrgsm021:

I just don't get companies who get the so-called consultants involved in workplace transformations when these consultants know nothing about your company structure, policy, culture, inner workings, the ICT systems and platforms, and yet the best/most suitable people to get involved in such transformation are actually right there all along - the employees.

That's a feature, don't you know? That way they have no preconceived ideas about the way things should be. A true tabula rasa.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1 | 2