I don't want to hear another complaint about Chorus DSL after experiencing NBN.

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Nurse (R)

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#2222081 22-Apr-2019 11:52

Just checked my old 2014 Sydney address (bottom left unit) NBN availability and it is still only ADSL2 even though it is on a very main road and only 250 meters from a very main & large exchange.

Lived at that address for 17 years and about once every 18mths to 24mths had to ring faults to come and drain the water out of either the footpath property communications pit or the very large (4 huge cover plates) end of street pit or reconnect the connections in the above ground Cross connect pillar, which was across the street from the afore mentioned large street pit and 25mtrs from the exchange, which kept shaking loose due to the heavy traffic load on the street. The connection screws literally came undone. One time I stood there and watched as they pumped the water out of the big pit and then wrapped the open connections in a plastic shopping bag. They are meant to be heat shrink wrapped.

Ever since they started installing, either Optus or Foxtel, their above ground cable network in the early 90's it has been a political 3rd rail. When Optus announced they were going to use their above ground cable network as part of the NBN they had the audacity to charge customers more for exactly the same service.

So they came up with 'Fibre to the Curb' FTTB which is fibre to your front gate and then connected to your existing copper to the house but wait there is more. In some Australian areas it is 'Fibre to the Node' FTTN which is fibre to the main street pit then copper to your house.

We returned home and settled in Tauranga in 2014 and immediately requested and got fibre thrusted under our 30mtr driveway to our house and we enjoy 80-90Mbps speeds. It was a very invisible and neat install.

We are just so lucky when it comes to broadband services and I include WiFi broadband, here in Kiwiland compared to our Aussie cousins.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

hio77

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#2222084 22-Apr-2019 12:03

FineWine:

So they came up with 'Fibre to the Curb' FTTB which is fibre to your front gate and then connected to your existing copper to the house but wait there is more. In some Australian areas it is 'Fibre to the Node' FTTN which is fibre to the main street pit then copper to your house.

I have to say, i actually have a bit of a liking to the out of the box approach taken here.

I dont know of any other large deployments, where the curb is backpowered by the customer.

For some complex situations, it's really not a bad idea. much like chorus's 60ghz radios.

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toejam316

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#2222191 22-Apr-2019 14:50

hio77:

FineWine:

So they came up with 'Fibre to the Curb' FTTB which is fibre to your front gate and then connected to your existing copper to the house but wait there is more. In some Australian areas it is 'Fibre to the Node' FTTN which is fibre to the main street pit then copper to your house.

I have to say, i actually have a bit of a liking to the out of the box approach taken here.

I dont know of any other large deployments, where the curb is backpowered by the customer.

For some complex situations, it's really not a bad idea. much like chorus's 60ghz radios.

Unfortunately it's a non-starter - when I was in Melbourne last I had a chat with some guys installing FTTC, and they reckoned they'd already had to replace 4 or 5 units that year, as they'd failed due to water ingress from being in manholes. It's a good idea done badly.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

atomeara

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#2222196 22-Apr-2019 15:06

hio77:

FineWine:

So they came up with 'Fibre to the Curb' FTTB which is fibre to your front gate and then connected to your existing copper to the house but wait there is more. In some Australian areas it is 'Fibre to the Node' FTTN which is fibre to the main street pit then copper to your house.

I have to say, i actually have a bit of a liking to the out of the box approach taken here.

I dont know of any other large deployments, where the curb is backpowered by the customer.

For some complex situations, it's really not a bad idea. much like chorus's 60ghz radios.

I am pretty sure 60Ghz won't see the light of day. IMO It is not a supportable solution for ISPs or Chorus.

My favorite part about NBN is looking at the NBN Co Half-Year Results ‘19

The number of 100/40 (the fastest plan) has gone from 13% in Dec 2017 to 11% in June 2018 to 9% in Dec 2018. That is for fixed line plans. I suspect that is as more people come onto NBN rather than existing customers changing. I also wonder if some of that is due to HFC / FTTC / FTTN services not being able to support those plans so not being available to order. Meanwhile Chorus has 71% of customers on 100Mb and about 80% of customers are 100Mb or higher

richms

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#2222215 22-Apr-2019 15:16

toejam316:
hio77:

FineWine:

So they came up with 'Fibre to the Curb' FTTB which is fibre to your front gate and then connected to your existing copper to the house but wait there is more. In some Australian areas it is 'Fibre to the Node' FTTN which is fibre to the main street pit then copper to your house.

I have to say, i actually have a bit of a liking to the out of the box approach taken here.

I dont know of any other large deployments, where the curb is backpowered by the customer.

For some complex situations, it's really not a bad idea. much like chorus's 60ghz radios.

Unfortunately it's a non-starter - when I was in Melbourne last I had a chat with some guys installing FTTC, and they reckoned they'd already had to replace 4 or 5 units that year, as they'd failed due to water ingress from being in manholes. It's a good idea done badly.

IMO it should only be used where getting fiber to the house is impractical without serious work, They are using it on all installs in FTTC areas over there, even when they could use existing conduit to get the fiber up to the house. I was told but have not confirmed that you can pay a crapload to upgrade to fiber to the house in the kerb areas.

Richard rich.ms

hio77

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#2222220 22-Apr-2019 15:37

toejam316:

Unfortunately it's a non-starter - when I was in Melbourne last I had a chat with some guys installing FTTC, and they reckoned they'd already had to replace 4 or 5 units that year, as they'd failed due to water ingress from being in manholes. It's a good idea done badly.

yep and that's truly the worst part of it all!

it's a brilliant idea on paper. but implemented so poorly that it's going to be an ongoing issue..

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hio77

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#2222221 22-Apr-2019 15:40

atomeara:

I am pretty sure 60Ghz won't see the light of day. IMO It is not a supportable solution for ISPs or Chorus.

I personally would not be against the solution but i'd be very detailed in my requirements before calling it acceptable..

the primary points these would center up to would be

* Can it be accurately diagnosed

* It would only be installed in situations where it's the ONLY option, not just the easiest. again going back to the first point...

Fibre has come a long way to offer Far improved user experiences for faults and service stability.

To then degrade that would be wrong.

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Behodar

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#2222224 22-Apr-2019 15:52

Batman: that's fast by AU standards.

Having recently had the "joy" of using a 384 kb/s connection in Adelaide, I have to agree with you there!

cddt

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#2222699 23-Apr-2019 14:44

BarTender: After experiencing NBN DSL I can say hand on my heart Chorus or Telecom back in the day never did this (well they did in the very beginning of Jetstream but dropped it quickly before VDSL even launched.)
Seriously Aussies. Sort out your broadband.

Your throttled speed is still much faster than my VDSL in Auckland.

Fibre can't come soon enough!

Torque

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#2222755 23-Apr-2019 17:05

I was lucky enough to have FTTP where I lived - amazed that the Aussies managed to politicise it so much they ended up with an absolute mess that they have now.

Nil Einne

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#2225008 25-Apr-2019 20:37

While there do seem to be a lot of problems with Australia's NBN, I don't really understand the OP's basic complaint. It may be true that Chorus never decided to do this for VDSL, but it's not like they don't do it. They did, and think they still do have a fibre 30/10 plan which isn't that far off what the OP is showing (yes the upload is a little low). And of course many people in NZ are on a 100/10 fibre plan rather that what could be called the unlimited i.e. gigabit.

I'm sure we can get into a big discussion about the rights and wrongs of limiting speeds to cope with network limits or just for price differentiation so so the policy of selling different plans at different speeds and different prices but it's something very common internationally including in NZ. Questions over the actual rates & prices in Australia , especially in comparison to here would be a good point of discussion but doesn't seem to be what the OP is interested in.

And didn't this continue for quite a long time here even for xDSL? I recall there being fs/128k plans for ADSL back in 2009, maybe even 2010 or 2011. Maybe some of these were ISP only limits or coming from LLU, but I'm fairly sure some were related to Chorus or Telecom's offerings since I'm fairly sure Telecom did have such plans and they also existed before LLU. Frankly the 128k upload was IMO a far more severe limit than what seems to be happening for the OP although we are in quite different times. IIRC at the later stage some of these may have been limited at some other level rather than the sync rate. (And internationally I know some ISPs limited xDSL plans, but not at the sync rate.)

I seem to recall the limits here were also to the sync rate, IIRC limited to 160kbps due to ATM etc overhead but in any case it seems a moot point. Whether it's better to limit the sync rate, or limit the bandwidth at some other level is again an implementation detail. The fact that I'm syncing at 500 kbps upstream doesn't make my 128 kbps upload any better. (Well there would be some minor technical effects depending on implementation but the point is for the end user it's mostly irrelevant.) Again none of these continued into VDSL but I go back to my fibre point, we haven't stopped either.

Behodar

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#2225011 25-Apr-2019 20:40

I suppose the key point is whether NBN has an option for faster speeds, or whether it's been artificially limited across the board.

stevenk

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#2225016 25-Apr-2019 21:04

Behodar:

I suppose the key point is whether NBN has an option for faster speeds, or whether it's been artificially limited across the board.

There are options for faster speeds with NBN. While in practice the speed offerings depend on what access technology you're stuck with (and without getting into that whole controversy) when you sign up with an RSP for a NBN connection, you select a specific performance tier (restricted to 12/1, 25/5, 50/10 or 100/40 by NBNco, because nobody could possibly need a connection faster than 100Mbit/s) and usually a monthly data allowance. NBNco don't do uncapped performance connections, unless you sign up for a speed tier beyond what your access technology can deliver... which the RSP's have been getting into a bit of trouble over.

In the OP's case the modem stats are exactly what I'd expect to see if they're on a 25/5 plan.

KiwiSurfer

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#2225142 26-Apr-2019 00:00

Nil Einne:

And didn't this continue for quite a long time here even for xDSL? I recall there being fs/128k plans for ADSL back in 2009, maybe even 2010 or 2011.

Yep, see Telecom's ADSL pricing in late 2009.

BarTender

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#2225636 26-Apr-2019 15:44

KiwiSurfer:

Nil Einne:

And didn't this continue for quite a long time here even for xDSL? I recall there being fs/128k plans for ADSL back in 2009, maybe even 2010 or 2011.

Yep, see Telecom's ADSL pricing in late 2009.

Yet if you look in 2010 those plans were dropped.

So *10* years ago Telecom had upstream capped plans and then dropped it at least 4 years earlier to when VDSL launched in NZ (2014).

Yes VDSL is a wholesale product so they sell the speeds they offer.

My main point is I think it's a good thing for NZ that Telecom and then Chorus didn't go down the path of tiering and artificially limiting the VDSL product in NZ, even though it's not a regulated product.

The argument over why there is a 30/10 product, probably because it's a wholesale regulated product as part of the agreement from all LFCs have with CFH.

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