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Zeon
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  #377022 5-Sep-2010 22:21
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freitasm:
Krisando: @PenultimateHop - "Bearing that Internet is a 90% imported product in New Zealand"

There's been no initiative to expand our inter-nationwide broadband bundle, it's interesting that in-order for someone to host content for New Zealander's they have to spend overseas to get a great price and extremely fast connectivity. Un-capping, and allowing near infinite usage (much like calling someone locally) would be brilliant. Heck, wouldn't need the inter-webs.


PenultimateHop's comment that "Internet is a 90% imported product in New Zealand" is not related to local content providers hosting overseas, but the fact that most of the content consumed in New Zealand comes from overseas content providers - BBC, CNN, YouTube, Apple iTunes, Microsoft Updates, Apple Updates. Even torrents are mostly sourced from overseas. Nothing to do with local content providers going overseas to host.

International hosting of local content would add a lot of latency and user experience would be bad.

There's a good amount of national infrastructure for locally hosted content - just look at local companies using it, such as APN, Fairfax (both Stuff and Trade Me), even ourselves. There's some good peering and our national networks are quite good in terms of traffic.

We host in Auckland because 75% of our New Zealand readership is from there. Smart content providers should know where to locate their hosts. We could of course host in the U.S. for 10% of the price... But then you wouldn't get the speed we can provide. The same goes for others. There's a balance of cost and user experience.

Note that our New Zealand unique visits is only 45% of our total, but New Zealanders tend to view six to ten times more page than overseas visitors, so most of our page views are served locally. Those 75% of New Zealand page views come from Auckland, so it wouldn't make sense to host anywhere else in the country. Auckland is also good because it allows one or two hops before getting overseas to the U.S., where most of our overseas readers come from.

And we are talking over 600,000 unique visits per month. Of course Trade Me would be closer to 100% national traffic, and Trade Me alone is responsible for 60% of New Zealand web traffic every month.



Exactly, look @ APN whom hos the NZ Herald media server (media.apn.co.nz) overseas. I don't even bother trying to watch NZ Herald videos as they are too slow, I just watch those on stuff.co.nz or tvnz instead. I am sure there are many in my position so if it was 20% of potential audience APN lose for their advertising then they lose out. I wonder if the cost savings of hosting off-shore would make up for the loss of advertising dollars or the compartively poor user experience compared to their competitors.




Speedtest 2019-10-14




BlakJak
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  #377027 5-Sep-2010 22:40
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If you run a website with an NZ audience in mind, the right place to have it is here in NZ.
Theres a reason that folks do this, you know.  Actually a couple of biggies.

1) cost.  Domestic bandwidth substantially cheaper than international, most especially if youre in the free-peering space chiippo mentioned.  Slightly less so if your source or destination is with an ISP who refuses to peer :(

2) latency.  Total transaction times for TCP connections are substantially reduced if the connections made by a customer can be quickly acknowledged. 

If youre overseas and browsing to a .nz site you have to expect reduced performance. 

NZ Herald could get around this on higher bandwidth stuff like videos by using a CDN if they wished. Im not sure there's a substantial market for this as I expect the majority of their load is domestic, and works fine.





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tdgeek
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  #377029 5-Sep-2010 23:09
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Blakjak
[I dont know what you think Xtra are, but they're not simply a wholesale ISP that other ISP brands buy services from. ]


Xtra are an ISP, they do not wholesale to other ISP's. They, under operational seperation act as an ISP just like any other ISP, paying Chorus, the network provider as other ISP's do. In fact Xtra is really Telecom Dialup or Telecom Broadband now, being Retail. Thus Retail are seperate to Chorus and pay the charges to access the Chorus Network, just as other ISP's do.  

Cheers Tony



robbyp
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  #377036 6-Sep-2010 00:03

BlakJak: If you run a website with an NZ audience in mind, the right place to have it is here in NZ.
Theres a reason that folks do this, you know.  Actually a couple of biggies.

1) cost.  Domestic bandwidth substantially cheaper than international, most especially if youre in the free-peering space chiippo mentioned.  Slightly less so if your source or destination is with an ISP who refuses to peer :(

2) latency.  Total transaction times for TCP connections are substantially reduced if the connections made by a customer can be quickly acknowledged. 

If youre overseas and browsing to a .nz site you have to expect reduced performance. 

NZ Herald could get around this on higher bandwidth stuff like videos by using a CDN if they wished. Im not sure there's a substantial market for this as I expect the majority of their load is domestic, and works fine.




 

Yes but don't telecom actually contract out their hosting to a US based provider (can't remember which one). Also their email is contracted out to Yahoo, which I believe is also hosted offshore.

I don't expect to see any real difference in loading between a US hosted website and a NZ hosted one, especially as some ISPs now cache the content anyway, which speeds things up.



Zeon
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  #377061 6-Sep-2010 09:23
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Yes but don't telecom actually contract out their hosting to a US based provider (can't remember which one). Also their email is contracted out to Yahoo, which I believe is also hosted offshore.

I don't expect to see any real difference in loading between a US hosted website and a NZ hosted one, especially as some ISPs now cache the content anyway, which speeds things up.




There is an absolute massive difference in loading times - for example during peak times at home on Xnet national is 5-10x faster.

And at work, the cost of 512kbps of international bandwidth costs literally half that which 10mbps national does. So with 10mbps national and 512kbps international there is a big difference in browsing experience, especially when other people are using international.




Speedtest 2019-10-14


BlakJak
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  #377099 6-Sep-2010 12:26
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robbyp:
BlakJak: If you run a website with an NZ audience in mind, the right place to have it is here in NZ.
Theres a reason that folks do this, you know.  Actually a couple of biggies.

1) cost.  Domestic bandwidth substantially cheaper than international, most especially if youre in the free-peering space chiippo mentioned.  Slightly less so if your source or destination is with an ISP who refuses to peer :(

2) latency.  Total transaction times for TCP connections are substantially reduced if the connections made by a customer can be quickly acknowledged. 

If youre overseas and browsing to a .nz site you have to expect reduced performance. 

NZ Herald could get around this on higher bandwidth stuff like videos by using a CDN if they wished. Im not sure there's a substantial market for this as I expect the majority of their load is domestic, and works fine.




 

Yes but don't telecom actually contract out their hosting to a US based provider (can't remember which one). Also their email is contracted out to Yahoo, which I believe is also hosted offshore.

I don't expect to see any real difference in loading between a US hosted website and a NZ hosted one, especially as some ISPs now cache the content anyway, which speeds things up.




I'm not sure what your point is.  Telecom's 'hosting'  - so you mean their own websites, or the ones they sell to customers?
Telecom have a large amount of domestically located infrastructure for hosting, etc, if you want to know where a server is try tracerouting to it and see where it goes. 

That all said,

Where they host has nothing to do with what their customers experience.  They're still connected domestically.  If a player has an overseas presence and can offer a choice as to domestic or international location, the customer gets to choose based on where their target market is; if they get a lot of offshore traffic an overseas site makes perfect sense.  Local browsers will

Incidentally last time I looked the YahooXtra stuff was hosted in Australia.  There _is_ a substantial performance difference between internationally hosted content and locally hosted content.  Interesting to see you don't seem to see this from where you sit...





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