Are we all getting taken for a ride with our caps and prices ???

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Are we all getting taken for a ride with our caps and prices ???

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383 posts

Ultimate Geek

#585848 23-Feb-2012 17:52

gzt: I don't understand why more ISP's do not offer pure per gb pricing.

I also don't understand why this per gb price does not automatically reduce as the data use goes up. It is not as if someone using 300GB requires 100x the support as someone using 3GB.

I imagine Ragnor's post above influences this. Additionally a lot of ISP's are frocusing on the large mum and dad with kids market not the lives and breathes technical market for which the per GB pricing is often ideal.

Having supported customers on plans where their data can run wild I can tell you bill shock for run away bandwidth is not unusual where as here I'm sure the bulk of usesrs can account for and control their bandwidth use.

As much as we are happy to sit here and say the customer needs to be responsible for their use the reality is this generates bad feeling for the customer towards the ISP. Sadly not having per GB plans easily available to customers may have a competitive advanatage associated with it.

Please note: I have a professional bias towards Vodafone.

Batman

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#585869 23-Feb-2012 18:17

moxpearl:

Just did a quick comparison of what $120 will buy our household (Since we are changing services and that is our budget)

$120 from Slingshot = Phone + 250GB Net (as we know they also have a unlimited plan for cheaper but it is shaped)
$130 from Vodafone = Phone + 120GB Net
$110 from Woosh = Phone + 100GB Net
$125 from Telecom = Phone + 80GB Net
$120 from Orcon = Phone + 70GB Net
$115 from Snap = Phone + 55GB Net
$120 from Xnet = Phone + 40GB Net

what about telstra $75 home plus 40GB

insane

3239 posts

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#585870 23-Feb-2012 18:17

gzt: I don't understand why more ISP's do not offer pure per gb pricing.

I also don't understand why this per gb price does not automatically reduce as the data use goes up. It is not as if someone using 300GB requires 100x the support as someone using 3GB.

Have a read of this blog by Mauricio http://www.freitasm.com/7976 , it explains why unlimited caps are a problem, and the answer won't be what you expect.

matisyahu

1623 posts

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#585920 23-Feb-2012 19:35

For me I'm happy with caps with my only complaint is for the caps need to be raised but more importantly for ISP's to properly connect together because it is horrific that as a Wellingtonian sitting in Upper Hutt that I can download faster off a server in Los Angeles than downloading something off a server sitting on the City Link network. Personally all this focus on price is really avoiding the more complex issues that need addresses such as beefing up the back haul, more interconnection, higher caps, more online services providing content that would reduce piracy etc.

Here is a good article: http://www.neowin.net/news/giffgaff-unlimited-data-packages-arent-sustainable

End of the day there are always limits - the question is the line between gouging customers vs. a fair return on infrastructure vs. technological limitations such as mobile phone tower capacity.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

gzt

17127 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#585929 23-Feb-2012 19:57

insane:
gzt: I don't understand why more ISP's do not offer pure per gb pricing.

I also don't understand why this per gb price does not automatically reduce as the data use goes up. It is not as if someone using 300GB requires 100x the support as someone using 3GB.

Have a read of this blog by Mauricio http://www.freitasm.com/7976 , it explains why unlimited caps are a problem, and the answer won't be what you expect.

It is very short, and asks a similar question. Did you intend to point to one of the comments on that post instead?

vgamail

100 posts

Master Geek

#586096 24-Feb-2012 09:16

moxpearl:
$120 from Slingshot = Phone + 250GB Net (as we know they also have a unlimited plan for cheaper but it is shaped)
$130 from Vodafone = Phone + 120GB Net
$110 from Woosh = Phone + 100GB Net
$125 from Telecom = Phone + 80GB Net
$120 from Orcon = Phone + 70GB Net
$115 from Snap = Phone + 55GB Net
$120 from Xnet = Phone + 40GB Net

My favourite: $120 from Xnet Fibre = Phone + 15GB Net

moxpearl

123 posts

Master Geek

#586129 24-Feb-2012 10:18

I am still struggling as to find why people are trying to defend our data caps... and I am not buying into the economies of it.. since data has been getting cheaper and cheaper.. yet our prices are not

Travel for awhile.. you will see how out of date our caps are.. Australia until very recently (well mid last year or so) had lowish caps.. now 500GB+ is common. (At the same time we were all getting told we should be seeing larger caps "Soon")

For people saying "Most people dont use more than 20gb" etc.. that is pure ignorance......

Try having a family in a house with
- Everyone streaming youtube during the month (With the kids doing it alot)
- Wife watching on demand
- Isky streaming the cricket
- A gamer who plays online + buys a game or two a month from steam/gamersgate/origin/blizzard
- PSN/Xbox Live Purchases/Game Updates
- App downloads for everyones Phones from Androiid Market/Itunes
- Updates for apps/games/windows
- Etc Etc Etc

100GB+ goes EASY

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

tigercorp

668 posts

Ultimate Geek

#586138 24-Feb-2012 10:41

moxpearl: I am still struggling as to find why people are trying to defend our data caps... and I am not buying into the economies of it.. since data has been getting cheaper and cheaper.. yet our prices are not

Travel for awhile.. you will see how out of date our caps are.. Australia until very recently (well mid last year or so) had lowish caps.. now 500GB+ is common. (At the same time we were all getting told we should be seeing larger caps "Soon")

For people saying "Most people dont use more than 20gb" etc.. that is pure ignorance......

Try having a family in a house with
- Everyone streaming youtube during the month (With the kids doing it alot)
- Wife watching on demand
- Isky streaming the cricket
- A gamer who plays online + buys a game or two a month from steam/gamersgate/origin/blizzard
- PSN/Xbox Live Purchases/Game Updates
- App downloads for everyones Phones from Androiid Market/Itunes
- Updates for apps/games/windows
- Etc Etc Etc

100GB+ goes EASY

So why aren't you on Slingshot's 250GB plan already? Voting with your wallet is the only way to force ISPs to make a change.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#586140 24-Feb-2012 10:50

moxpearl: I am still struggling as to find why people are trying to defend our data caps... and I am not buying into the economies of it.. since data has been getting cheaper and cheaper.. yet our prices are not

plans have been getting bigger and bigger, which is the same thing as plans getting cheaper.

e.g. 3 years ago, Telecom's biggest plan was 50GB and cost >$160 including a landline. I know because I was on it. Now I can get a bigger plan (60GB) for $105 from Telecom, and even cheaper (or more data) from other ISPs

So don't try and claim we haven't seen any benefits

Travel for awhile.. you will see how out of date our caps are.. Australia until very recently (well mid last year or so) had lowish caps.. now 500GB+ is common. (At the same time we were all getting told we should be seeing larger caps "Soon")

For people saying "Most people dont use more than 20gb" etc.. that is pure ignorance......

Try having a family in a house with
- Everyone streaming youtube during the month (With the kids doing it alot)
- Wife watching on demand
- Isky streaming the cricket
- A gamer who plays online + buys a game or two a month from steam/gamersgate/origin/blizzard
- PSN/Xbox Live Purchases/Game Updates
- App downloads for everyones Phones from Androiid Market/Itunes
- Updates for apps/games/windows
- Etc Etc Etc

100GB+ goes EASY

no, it is simple fact.

Yes, doing all that stuff would use up a lot of data, but most households don't do much, if any, of that stuff. Most people use the internet for email, browsing, and a little bit of youtube.

even in countries with unlimited data, usage still averages around 20GB
,
Most people do not strema heaps of content, even with unlimited plans
Most people do not download heaps of games, even with unlimited data
etc etc

and the average above is Mean average, meaning it is skewed upwards by the few people who use TBs of data. Median is probably somewhere aroudn 10GB.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#586141 24-Feb-2012 10:52

joker97:
moxpearl:

Just did a quick comparison of what $120 will buy our household (Since we are changing services and that is our budget)

$120 from Slingshot = Phone + 250GB Net (as we know they also have a unlimited plan for cheaper but it is shaped)
$130 from Vodafone = Phone + 120GB Net
$110 from Woosh = Phone + 100GB Net
$125 from Telecom = Phone + 80GB Net
$120 from Orcon = Phone + 70GB Net
$115 from Snap = Phone + 55GB Net
$120 from Xnet = Phone + 40GB Net

what about telstra $75 home plus 40GB

It;s a promotional price, not available to existing customers and only last a year inj any case. Once the 12 months is up you start paying $30 extra for the 40GB.

djrm

191 posts

Master Geek

#586166 24-Feb-2012 11:37

NonprayingMantis:
moxpearl: I am still struggling as to find why people are trying to defend our data caps... and I am not buying into the economies of it.. since data has been getting cheaper and cheaper.. yet our prices are not

plans have been getting bigger and bigger, which is the same thing as plans getting cheaper.

e.g. 3 years ago, Telecom's biggest plan was 50GB and cost >$160 including a landline. I know because I was on it. Now I can get a bigger plan (60GB) for $105 from Telecom, and even cheaper (or more data) from other ISPs

So don't try and claim we haven't seen any benefits

Travel for awhile.. you will see how out of date our caps are.. Australia until very recently (well mid last year or so) had lowish caps.. now 500GB+ is common. (At the same time we were all getting told we should be seeing larger caps "Soon")

For people saying "Most people dont use more than 20gb" etc.. that is pure ignorance......

Try having a family in a house with
- Everyone streaming youtube during the month (With the kids doing it alot)
- Wife watching on demand
- Isky streaming the cricket
- A gamer who plays online + buys a game or two a month from steam/gamersgate/origin/blizzard
- PSN/Xbox Live Purchases/Game Updates
- App downloads for everyones Phones from Androiid Market/Itunes
- Updates for apps/games/windows
- Etc Etc Etc

100GB+ goes EASY

no, it is simple fact.

Yes, doing all that stuff would use up a lot of data, but most households don't do much, if any, of that stuff. Most people use the internet for email, browsing, and a little bit of youtube.

even in countries with unlimited data, usage still averages around 20GB
,
Most people do not strema heaps of content, even with unlimited plans
Most people do not download heaps of games, even with unlimited data
etc etc

and the average above is Mean average, meaning it is skewed upwards by the few people who use TBs of data. Median is probably somewhere aroudn 10GB.

Sorry but those statements are very innacurate. The USA has much higher usage and they have , by in large, unlimited data. As I pointed out in the RBI discussion yesterday the average data usage per month in the US is 130GB. This is due in part because of Newtflix, XBox etc.

Also I believe if the public over here had larger data caps then they would use more adata as at present they're probably worried about being charged excessive amounts for going over their cap.

itxtme

2102 posts

Uber Geek

#586180 24-Feb-2012 12:01

moxpearl: I am still struggling as to find why people are trying to defend our data caps... and I am not buying into the economies of it.. since data has been getting cheaper and cheaper.. yet our prices are not

Travel for awhile.. you will see how out of date our caps are.. Australia until very recently (well mid last year or so) had lowish caps.. now 500GB+ is common. (At the same time we were all getting told we should be seeing larger caps "Soon")

For people saying "Most people dont use more than 20gb" etc.. that is pure ignorance......

Try having a family in a house with
- Everyone streaming youtube during the month (With the kids doing it alot)
- Wife watching on demand
- Isky streaming the cricket
- A gamer who plays online + buys a game or two a month from steam/gamersgate/origin/blizzard
- PSN/Xbox Live Purchases/Game Updates
- App downloads for everyones Phones from Androiid Market/Itunes
- Updates for apps/games/windows
- Etc Etc Etc

100GB+ goes EASY

I agree with you 100%, by no means do I think there should be "unlimited" data as we know it doesnt work without a massive trade off. I think currently people fit within what their cap allows, if they went up so do the opportunities. Clearly on a comparison to other countries ours are very low.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#586183 24-Feb-2012 12:05

djrm:
Sorry but those statements are very innacurate. The USA has much higher usage and they have , by in large, unlimited data. As I pointed out in the RBI discussion yesterday the average data usage per month in the US is 130GB. This is due in part because of Newtflix, XBox etc.

Also I believe if the public over here had larger data caps then they would use more adata as at present they're probably worried about being charged excessive amounts for going over their cap.

where did you get that 130GB stat from? It's way way above any number I have seen

here are some USa stats I found in about ten seconds using google

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2010/db0813/DOC-300902A1.pdf

from 2009:

"In the first half of 2009, the median broadband user consumed almost 2 gigabytes of data per month, whereas the average (mean) user consumed over 9 gigabytes per month. "

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/solutions/collateral/ns341/ns525/ns537/ns705/Cisco_VNI_Usage_WP.html

from 2010
"The average broadband connection generates 14.9 GB of Internet traffic per month, up from 11.4 GB per month last year, an increase of 31 percent1"

so roughly 10GB in 2009, 15GB in 2010.
the level of growth to go from that to 130GB is simply not remotely likely.

Interesting to see the median in 2009 was only 2GB - meaning 50% of people used less than 2GB!

nzkiwiman

2585 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#586185 24-Feb-2012 12:12

I know that I have to 'live within my cap' and so adjust my usage to make sure my cap lasts all month and I don't have to buy extra data or suffer days of 64k shaping.

Example: 35GB doesn't let me download the YouTube videos I want to - I know I could download about 10GB a night if I was able to, but because I don't want to blow my cap in three days, I have to pick what I actually download (why do I download .. because watching informative videos in a tiny box sucks, and if I need to watch it again and again then I have only downloaded it once)

djrm

191 posts

Master Geek

#586195 24-Feb-2012 12:34

It is realistic in households that contain 2 adults and teenage kids as the kids tend to be data hungry. Hook up PS2, XBox, download movies and music, stream tv, you tube long with all other tasks and you could soon mount the data up without trying too hard.

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