Slow broadband, maybe not.

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Behodar

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#701057 14-Oct-2012 17:36

sbiddle: Is VDSL2 or wireless not an option?

VDSL2 is not available down my end of the street; it runs out about 100 metres from my place (and three different ISPs have confirmed that they can't offer it). There's also no wireless where I live due to being in a valley/behind a hill.

sbiddle: If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

How do you tell?

sbiddle

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#701060 14-Oct-2012 17:41

Behodar:
sbiddle: If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

How do you tell?

There isn't a way for an end user to tell, it's something only your ISP could tell you.

The benefit of EUBA is no artificial handover dimensioning at this time. Handover dimensioning is something set in place by the Commerce Commission as BUBA is a regulated offering, however EUBA0 is the equivilent Ethernet based product and has no dimensioning in place, however it's something Chorus say is still coming.

mercutio

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#701077 14-Oct-2012 18:38

sbiddle:
NZCrusader:
freitasm:
dukester: I heard an item on the radio this morning that slow broadband was no 1 on the list of things that annoy kiwis. Sometimes its not the speed of the broadband.

These are the people who completely ignore the fact that most speed problems happen inside their property - no proper filter/split, corroded wiring, multiple devices on same line, etc...

Possibly. However out here, its because of the wonderful BUBA product and the dimensioning that comes with it.

But the vast majority of users in NZ are now on EUBA, and there exists no real reasons for ISP's to have BUBA users who are on a EUBA cabable ISAM. If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

from my understanding users on buba exchanges have got worse and worse performance. it was pretty bad when most users were on buba, but now isp's are doing the same plans on buba and euba leading to even more congestion.

sbiddle

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#701080 14-Oct-2012 18:43

mercutio:
sbiddle:
NZCrusader:
freitasm:
dukester: I heard an item on the radio this morning that slow broadband was no 1 on the list of things that annoy kiwis. Sometimes its not the speed of the broadband.

These are the people who completely ignore the fact that most speed problems happen inside their property - no proper filter/split, corroded wiring, multiple devices on same line, etc...

Possibly. However out here, its because of the wonderful BUBA product and the dimensioning that comes with it.

But the vast majority of users in NZ are now on EUBA, and there exists no real reasons for ISP's to have BUBA users who are on a EUBA cabable ISAM. If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

from my understanding users on buba exchanges have got worse and worse performance. it was pretty bad when most users were on buba, but now isp's are doing the same plans on buba and euba leading to even more congestion.

There are two distinct issues here - ISP's who are keeping users on BUBA because they're not interested in migrating users, and those who are stuck on BUBA because they're not on an ISAM.

If you're stuck on BUBA because your ISP won't migrate you then change to another ISP.

It does need to be remembered that handover dimensioning exists because of regulation from the Commerce Commission.

mercutio

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#701091 14-Oct-2012 19:12

sbiddle:
mercutio:
sbiddle:
NZCrusader:
freitasm:
dukester: I heard an item on the radio this morning that slow broadband was no 1 on the list of things that annoy kiwis. Sometimes its not the speed of the broadband.

These are the people who completely ignore the fact that most speed problems happen inside their property - no proper filter/split, corroded wiring, multiple devices on same line, etc...

Possibly. However out here, its because of the wonderful BUBA product and the dimensioning that comes with it.

But the vast majority of users in NZ are now on EUBA, and there exists no real reasons for ISP's to have BUBA users who are on a EUBA cabable ISAM. If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

from my understanding users on buba exchanges have got worse and worse performance. it was pretty bad when most users were on buba, but now isp's are doing the same plans on buba and euba leading to even more congestion.

There are two distinct issues here - ISP's who are keeping users on BUBA because they're not interested in migrating users, and those who are stuck on BUBA because they're not on an ISAM.

If you're stuck on BUBA because your?ISP won't migrate you then change to another ISP.

It does need to be remembered that handover dimensioning exists because of regulation from the Commerce Commission.

The same Commerce Commission that say that Net Neutrality is not a significant issues in NZ?

Users on BUBA for the most part now are on exchanges that don't support EUBA, which is reasonably common out of immediate cities.

There's not really anything wrong with ISP's having low volume users on BUBA, as long as they have adequete dimensioning. The problems come when all users that can be moved are moved - and high usage plans are allowed. How BUBA can work better is when you have a good balance of lower users to increase the capacity.

TBH, I hear change ISP's way too much, as if it's likely to fix national speed issues etc.

That in general isn't really a helpful recommendation, especially to people on BUBA, as they may find that they have no net at all because there are a shortage of ports.

sbiddle

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#701097 14-Oct-2012 19:34

What do you suggest as a solution then?

The issues you raise are exactly the problem with a once price for all business model. ISP's can pay more for greater BUBA handover but if they tried to charge users more they'll just scream to the media much like those who believe Telecom should provide them lifetime free email even though they're not users.

mercutio

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#701099 14-Oct-2012 19:42

sbiddle: What do you suggest as a solution then?

The issues you raise are exactly the problem with a once price for all business model. ISP's can pay more for greater BUBA handover but if they tried to charge users more they'll just scream to the media much like those who believe Telecom should provide them lifetime free email even though they're not users.

Well I think it's better to be transparent rather than absorb the costs in some areas. But then I also disagree with the raising of cost for naked DSL to buffer against the costs of rural users.

Do telecom not provide life time email? Orcon do I remember. I've had my own mail domain since dialup days as I don't really want to be branded with the ISP I use, or rely on something like hotmail.

I think anyone that cares about email should really have their own domain name.

Otherwise it's just a throw away email to sign up for things online.

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sbiddle

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#701105 14-Oct-2012 20:02

I'm of the view that rural users should pay more, purely because I disagree of the concept of subsidies, whether it be internet, or something in the real world such as Fair Trade (but that's getting way OT now!).

colinuu

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#701161 14-Oct-2012 21:29

sbiddle: I'm of the view that rural users should pay more, purely because I disagree of the concept of subsidies, whether it be internet, or something in the real world such as Fair Trade (but that's getting way OT now!).

Subsidies are kind of like tax breaks - even when you're philosophically opposed, you are still likely to take advantage of what comes your way. In the end things tend to balance out. Rural residents accept the subsidies available for telecom services, while paying a lot more for other things.

I have noticed that townies lucky enough to live near the UFB routes are taking advantage of completely free UFB installations. As subsidies go, that's not bad. I'm not complaining - just like to see some balance in the discussions about rural subsidies.

mercutio

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#701165 14-Oct-2012 21:45

colinuu:
sbiddle: I'm of the view that rural users should pay more, purely because I disagree of the concept of subsidies, whether it be internet, or something in the real world such as Fair Trade (but that's getting way OT now!).

Subsidies are kind of like tax breaks - even when you're philosophically opposed, you are still?likely to take advantage of what comes your way. In the end things tend to balance out. Rural residents accept the subsidies available for telecom services, while paying a lot more for other things.

I have noticed that townies lucky enough to live near the UFB routes are taking advantage of completely free UFB installations. As subsidies go, that's not bad. I'm not complaining - just like to see some balance in the discussions about rural subsidies.

that to me is pretty wrong, people should pay for the install. i'm complaining, probably partially cos i don't have ufb available in my area. but also because NZ has hellishly expensive housing and food, and we're not subsidising food but internet! and for what reason? so that people can stream tv shows and download movies?

NZCrusader

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#701515 15-Oct-2012 14:58

mercutio:
sbiddle:
mercutio:
sbiddle:
NZCrusader:
freitasm:
dukester: I heard an item on the radio this morning that slow broadband was no 1 on the list of things that annoy kiwis. Sometimes its not the speed of the broadband.

These are the people who completely ignore the fact that most speed problems happen inside their property - no proper filter/split, corroded wiring, multiple devices on same line, etc...

Possibly. However out here, its because of the wonderful BUBA product and the dimensioning that comes with it.

But the vast majority of users in NZ are now on EUBA, and there exists no real reasons for ISP's to have BUBA users who are on a EUBA cabable ISAM. If you're on an BUBA connection and connected to an ISAM you should ask your ISP to migerate you across.

from my understanding users on buba exchanges have got worse and worse performance. it was pretty bad when most users were on buba, but now isp's are doing the same plans on buba and euba leading to even more congestion.

There are two distinct issues here - ISP's who are keeping users on BUBA because they're not interested in migrating users, and those who are stuck on BUBA because they're not on an ISAM.

If you're stuck on BUBA because your?ISP won't migrate you then change to another ISP.

It does need to be remembered that handover dimensioning exists because of regulation from the Commerce Commission.

The same Commerce Commission that say that Net Neutrality is not a significant issues in NZ?

Users on BUBA for the most part now are on exchanges that don't support EUBA, which is reasonably common out of immediate cities.

There's not really anything wrong with ISP's having low volume users on BUBA, as long as they have adequete dimensioning. The problems come when all users that can be moved are moved - and high usage plans are allowed. How BUBA can work better is when you have a good balance of lower users to increase the capacity.

TBH, I hear change ISP's way too much, as if it's likely to fix national speed issues etc.

That in general isn't really a helpful recommendation, especially to people on BUBA, as they may find that they have no net at all because there are a shortage of ports.

Well I for one am on an ASAM (does not support EUBA).

The BUBA product would be fine if it wasnt for needless dimensioning.
I would imagine that because there are few left on BUBA the ISPs cannot purchase as much backhaul bandwidth.

Thus with a smaller bandwidth allocation & higher bandwidth demands per household. We are pretty screwed.

RBI is very expensive, low data caps and is generally not worthwhile for almost everyone.

Comcom needs to cease the dimensioning least we get left behind even further. ( as its not like UFB is coming to our door soon - if ever)

And yes incase anyone suggests it. I am very much considering moving, but the crazy house prices, and rent options set by the previous generation (thanks guys) is making it rather difficult.

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mercutio

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#701522 15-Oct-2012 15:05

NZCrusader:

Well I for one am on an ASAM (does not support EUBA).

The BUBA product would be fine if it wasnt for needless dimensioning.
I would imagine that because there are few left on BUBA the ISPs cannot purchase as much backhaul bandwidth.

Thus with a smaller bandwidth allocation & higher bandwidth demands per household. We are pretty screwed.

RBI is very expensive, low data caps and is generally not worthwhile for almost everyone.

Comcom needs to cease the dimensioning least we get left behind even further. ( as its not like UFB is coming to our door soon - if ever)

And yes incase anyone suggests it. I am very much considering moving, but the crazy house prices, and rent options set by the previous generation (thanks guys) is making it rather difficult.

Out of curiosity what ISP are you on now and how do you find evening performance?

I remember someone from Maxnet saying that they were managing BUBA effectively. And from my understanding Slingshot and Orcon aren't.

Pretty much if you're thinking about RBI, then you may have a wireless option, but probably don't have a lot of options. And now that "UFB" is the "next big thing" it's unlikely you will be updated in the short term. Maybe in a few years time you can kick up a stink.

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