Orcon, Compass, Slingshot sharing unbundled exchanges

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Orcon, Compass, Slingshot sharing unbundled exchanges

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#334709 25-May-2010 19:11

Depends on what equipment or type of fibre they use. For stuff that you can buy for private stuff, you can get up to 70km. It's not that cheap either so you don't want runs that long lol.

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cyril7

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#334785 25-May-2010 21:52

@Ragnor, the 20km limit is based around a 28dB link budget that includes a 32way splitter that is responsible for most of that loss. Current optics for a point to point link is around 80km before a repeater is needed.

So in typical situation an OLT (the GPON head end) may be remotely feed by several uplink pt2pt links, the actual OLT to ONT PON including 32:1 split is the 20km limit.

Cyril

Ragnor

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#334859 26-May-2010 01:00

willnz: Then they'd need to replace 20km of cable if something went wrong with it

I think there are various techniques like blown fibre for installing new cable/replacing.

Ragnor

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#334862 26-May-2010 01:03

cyril7: @Ragnor, the 20km limit is based around a 28dB link budget that includes a 32way splitter that is responsible for most of that loss. Current optics for a point to point link is around 80km before a repeater is needed.

So in typical situation an OLT (the GPON head end) may be remotely feed by several uplink pt2pt links, the actual OLT to ONT PON including 32:1 split is the 20km limit.

Thanks for the explanation Cyril.

hellonearthisman

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#335014 26-May-2010 12:30

I wonder what will happen with Vodafone. Currently Slingshot has 'The Next Big Thing' service, which uses Vodafones unbundled gear at a wholesale level. If Orcon and Vodafone have a doubleup of gear in the exchange, will Slingshot now pick Orcon over Vodafones gear?

I wonder why Vodafone didn't joined this trio.

exportgoldman

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#335645 27-May-2010 21:30

hellonearthisman: I wonder what will happen with Vodafone. Currently Slingshot has 'The Next Big Thing' service, which uses Vodafones unbundled gear at a wholesale level. If Orcon and Vodafone have a doubleup of gear in the exchange, will Slingshot now pick Orcon over Vodafones gear?

I wonder why Vodafone didn't joined this trio.

I assume Vodafone didn't join because they seem to be unbundling all available exchanges from what I have read previously?

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webwat

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#336170 30-May-2010 00:20

cyril7: @Ragnor, the 20km limit is based around a 28dB link budget that includes a 32way splitter that is responsible for most of that loss. Current optics for a point to point link is around 80km before a repeater is needed.

So in typical situation an OLT (the GPON head end) may be remotely feed by several uplink pt2pt links, the actual OLT to ONT PON including 32:1 split is the 20km limit.

Cyril

Well thats the whole point of the governments FTTP "request for proposals" CFH is working through now, to break our dependance on copper.

However, I'm sure you aren't suggesting to use 20km drops to individual premises! Just the 32-way and 64-way PON splitters seem to have 18dB to 20dB insertion loss, so a sensible network would use a shorter feed to each patch/splitter cabinet, and probably less than 5km distribution runs. Things get really expensive so you definitely want to make GPON and EPON options for budget conscious subscribers. I dont know if any of the proposals would be based on OLTs in outdoor cabinets, but makes sense to me, which allows a whole region to be served from a couple of regional data centres.

Time to find a new industry!

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cyril7

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#336196 30-May-2010 08:56

Webwat, I am sure a single 20km PON drop would be not cost effective. One of the things with PON systems is that you can avoid active electronics in the street where possible, so to have OLTs in cabinets or exchange buildings at reasonable locations and only splitters in pedastals in the street.

Also dont forget a PON split does not need to do all 32 or 64 in one split, you can split say 4ways then split those 4 drops a further 4 or 8 ways as desired 5 or 10km down the road. More a rural than suburban setup.

I undestood Telecom had been putting OLTs in wisper cabinets, the ISAM frames have OLT linecards in exchange for DSL, but I may have misread the info and they were only splitters they were installing

Cyril

matthemole

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#336215 30-May-2010 10:19

The engineering of a PON network is a complex thing because you have to be constantly looking at capacity management and splitter utilization.

The 20km limit is based on a 29db budget and b+ optics in the PON card within the OLT. Some vendors are offering C Class optics which will give 30Kms of distance.

In Point to Point or (AON) networks you can drive the fibre for up to 70km's but at a cost. You can get 40Km SFPs for about the same cost as 20km PON optics, however the bandwidth the consumer will receive with PON will be lower.

It is interesting to note that CFH are stating a 1 to 24 split for PON networks. This is so the end customer will get 100Mbs download. This means that the service providers will not get good utilization of their splitter networks (75% of a 32 splitter) which makes the cost effectiveness of a PON network lower when comapred to P2P.

webwat

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#336262 30-May-2010 13:06

100Mbps uncontended bandwidth on a PON is the stated requirement for the Specified Layer 1 Service, but in fact bandwidth at Layer 1 is measured in MHz, being capacity of the optics to handle any given signal. So if you build a network with very long drops then you start limiting the insertion loss you can put into the link with splitters. As you know, splitters have insertion loss; its cumulative so a single big splitter would be more efficient than 2 smaller ones and probably cheaper too.

CFH doesn't seem to realise you cant specify bitrates for dark fibre (its dark so there are no bits...) although given types of fibre can generally handle various bitrates. They also dont realise that you cannot have uncontended PON or contended point to point fibre. Any attempt to calculate an uncontended bandwidth assumes that nobody can get higher than 100Mbps, and they have also decided the Specified Layer 2 Service that requires Gigabit interfaces. They should just let competition work out the contention issues. However, retailers do NOT have to offer the specified service, so there is still room for efficient choices.

Time to find a new industry!

raytaylor

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#336418 31-May-2010 01:07

webwat: 100Mbps uncontended bandwidth on a PON is the stated requirement for the Specified Layer 1 Service, but in fact bandwidth at Layer 1 is measured in MHz, being capacity of the optics to handle any given signal. So if you build a network with very long drops then you start limiting the insertion loss you can put into the link with splitters. As you know, splitters have insertion loss; its cumulative so a single big splitter would be more efficient than 2 smaller ones and probably cheaper too.

CFH doesn't seem to realise you cant specify bitrates for dark fibre (its dark so there are no bits...) although given types of fibre can generally handle various bitrates. They also dont realise that you cannot have uncontended PON or contended point to point fibre. Any attempt to calculate an uncontended bandwidth assumes that nobody can get higher than 100Mbps, and they have also decided the Specified Layer 2 Service that requires Gigabit interfaces. They should just let competition work out the contention issues. However, retailers do NOT have to offer the specified service, so there is still room for efficient choices.

Dont worry, I am sure telecom or the various power companies will correct CFH on their errors in the requirements. Probably not to our benefit but they will be corrected.

lol.

Anyhow back to the exchanges. For the customers running off a cabinet, that is still close to the exchange, i am sure they will just be patched back to the exchange. No point in getting someone a sync rate of 10mbits when the isp itself still cannot provide 5mbits.

Ray Taylor

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richms

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#336429 31-May-2010 02:09

It seems if you are getting over 10 meg sync you are not a candidate for a cabinet. Cousins are on 11 or so and are in a place that isnt getting a cabinet which suprised me.

Anyway good to see that the telcos have finally woken up to this idea rather than banging on about things not being regulated their way. Hope they have to suffer the same regulation they were wanting forced on telecom. That will teach them.

Richard rich.ms

webwat

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#336514 31-May-2010 11:05

That will teach them? They just wanted fair access to their customers. What they really need to learn is that lots of ISPs running a joint venture has much better chance at doing this than lots of small ones who never cooperate. A wholesale provider might have to be started by government before ISPs will put money into such a venture. Otherwise we are back at the original problem of only a few choices of telco, and likely just 1 in marginal areas.

Time to find a new industry!

Ragnor

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#336586 31-May-2010 13:11

The Singapore model is interesting
http://www.ida.gov.sg/Infrastructure/20060919190208.aspx

Zeon

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#336599 31-May-2010 13:43

Ragnor: The Singapore model is interesting
http://www.ida.gov.sg/Infrastructure/20060919190208.aspx

I think that model would work really well for New Zealand TBH. The passive infrastructure could be supplied by the local power companies e.g. Vector and then the wholesalers could compete on top of that. Competition in the wholesale is gonna be pretty important IMO

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