NZ Broadband testing from Samknows

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › NZ Broadband testing from Samknows

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 21

3606 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2076218 20-Aug-2018 13:40

BlakJak:
stinger:
703: A whole bunch of people being able to stream netflix or youtube without buffering is hardly the business case that the nation should be spending billion of dollars investing in, they go to off shore tech companies which don't even pay tax here.

All the major players (Netflix, Lightbox, Neon, Google and Spotify) pay GST on revenue raised from NZ customers. And if the business case is not for customers who stream video, what is it? I can't think of any other case where ADSL is not sufficient. (for me higher upstream bandwidth helps with my off site backups)
When myself, my wife and two kids all want to stream different video content, ADSL is insufficient. VDSL would probably hav been insufficient too. And don't ask what happens when one of our machines starts background-downloading updates whilst this is occurring. One of the biggest reasons for fatter pipes is the ability to have multiple users doing what they need to do without impinging on everyone else.

That and the copper network is aging and deteriorates from distance and time so needing to constantly repair / replace it is an ongoing issue.

Fibre doesn't have that problem and as long as it is installed properly (which we all know there are a LOT of dodgy installs!) then it should have a 50 year lifespan. Then upgrading the bits at either end will give you increasing speeds.

That being said I struggle with how an average 4/5 person household would *EVER* need more than 1GB/500Mb service since even 8K content at 50Gbit/s that's a lot of streams concurrently.

But horizontally scaling that to the counties 1.4M+ fixed broadband connections will be interesting. However with the continual growth of CDN traffic from the above video streaming services I see the majority of content being served onshore with only the metadata / auth being offshore and the CDNs being filled at a time convenient to the RSPs.

New Zealand has excellent broadband today with VDSL covering 85% and it will only get better with the ongoing UFB Build. The main issue will be around the 1-3% who live in very rural areas who either can't get mobile coverage or can get coverage but "need" (questionable with 120/240GB plans IMHO) more than today's allocated Mobile Broadband allocation. And for those poor suckers on Conklins Chorus just needs to say "sorry we are shutting them down on x date" and stick to their guns and take the heat.

hio77

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#2076221 20-Aug-2018 13:45

BarTender:

And for those poor suckers on Conklins Chorus just needs to say "sorry we are shutting them down on x date" and stick to their guns and take the heat.

lol. that will be twisted into provider issues so quickly...

i don't really see chorus ever committing to doing that until they are in the dire, oh no. no more ATM moments.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

acjh58

43 posts

Geek

#2076290 20-Aug-2018 15:26

BarTender:

That and the copper network is aging and deteriorates from distance and time so needing to constantly repair / replace it is an ongoing issue.

Fibre doesn't have that problem and as long as it is installed properly (which we all know there are a LOT of dodgy installs!) then it should have a 50 year lifespan. Then upgrading the bits at either end will give you increasing speeds.

That being said I struggle with how an average 4/5 person household would *EVER* need more than 1GB/500Mb service since even 8K content at 50Gbit/s that's a lot of streams concurrently.

But horizontally scaling that to the counties 1.4M+ fixed broadband connections will be interesting. However with the continual growth of CDN traffic from the above video streaming services I see the majority of content being served onshore with only the metadata / auth being offshore and the CDNs being filled at a time convenient to the RSPs.

New Zealand has excellent broadband today with VDSL covering 85% and it will only get better with the ongoing UFB Build. The main issue will be around the 1-3% who live in very rural areas who either can't get mobile coverage or can get coverage but "need" (questionable with 120/240GB plans IMHO) more than today's allocated Mobile Broadband allocation. And for those poor suckers on Conklins Chorus just needs to say "sorry we are shutting them down on x date" and stick to their guns and take the heat.

Interesting to note that the copper is actually in good nick, and will be with us for many years to come. The Telecom "cabinetisation" deal with the government led to the 85% VDSL capability, even before UFB was started. UFB was intended to "future proof" the network and deliver a host of economic benefits, but it's questionable whether video streaming from CDNs was one of the benefits or whether the actual implementation of the UFB is even as robust as the existing copper network. Even at the completion of UFB2, there will be a lot of customers still connected by copper and the Telecommunications Amendment Bill, going through its second reading now, recognises the need to retain copper regulation - so Conklin and CMAR connected customers can expect to have continued service and upgrades through RBI.

BarTender

3606 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2076598 21-Aug-2018 08:50

hio77:

BarTender:

And for those poor suckers on Conklins Chorus just needs to say "sorry we are shutting them down on x date" and stick to their guns and take the heat.

lol. that will be twisted into provider issues so quickly...

i don't really see chorus ever committing to doing that until they are in the dire, oh no. no more ATM moments.

In my view that will happen sooner than later. As we both know there are a certain number of core components in the ATM network that can no longer be repaired or replaced due to all the hardware being end of life. Parts have already been failing and when it comes to the point that spares can no longer be sourced internationally and a significant element fails then that will be when the rubber hits the road.

Fun times ahead when one of those components dies and part of the country stops working or the management stack stops working and no more provisioning or monitoring occurs.

acjh58: Interesting to note that the copper is actually in good nick, and will be with us for many years to come. The Telecom "cabinetisation" deal with the government led to the 85% VDSL capability, even before UFB was started. UFB was intended to "future proof" the network and deliver a host of economic benefits, but it's questionable whether video streaming from CDNs was one of the benefits or whether the actual implementation of the UFB is even as robust as the existing copper network. Even at the completion of UFB2, there will be a lot of customers still connected by copper and the Telecommunications Amendment Bill, going through its second reading now, recognises the need to retain copper regulation - so Conklin and CMAR connected customers can expect to have continued service and upgrades through RBI.

I agree here, but the only real upgrade is to move to an ISAM over ethernet. For that you need either Fibre or DMR style links into the remote location where the Conklin/ASAM is today. I know for the rural cabinets I don't think Chorus are keen on putting in DMR links as weather & vandals are an issue. But trenching in 10's to 100's of KMs of fibre isn't cheap to service sub 20 customers.

acjh58

43 posts

Geek

#2076688 21-Aug-2018 12:20

BarTender:

I agree here, but the only real upgrade is to move to an ISAM over ethernet. For that you need either Fibre or DMR style links into the remote location where the Conklin/ASAM is today. I know for the rural cabinets I don't think Chorus are keen on putting in DMR links as weather & vandals are an issue. But trenching in 10's to 100's of KMs of fibre isn't cheap to service sub 20 customers.

I have tried to get some detail on what is happening for RBI 2 around the issue of upgrading existing rural broadband (without much luck yet), but my guess is that the plan may be to use the extended mobile network to overlay Conklin areas rather than upgrade cabinet backhaul. As there are very few of these customers, it might be possible to provision a limited number of "fixed" broadband connections per tower without affecting mobile service?

BarTender

3606 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2076960 21-Aug-2018 16:58

acjh58:

BarTender:

I agree here, but the only real upgrade is to move to an ISAM over ethernet. For that you need either Fibre or DMR style links into the remote location where the Conklin/ASAM is today. I know for the rural cabinets I don't think Chorus are keen on putting in DMR links as weather & vandals are an issue. But trenching in 10's to 100's of KMs of fibre isn't cheap to service sub 20 customers.

I have tried to get some detail on what is happening for RBI 2 around the issue of upgrading existing rural broadband (without much luck yet), but my guess is that the plan may be to use the extended mobile network to overlay Conklin areas rather than upgrade cabinet backhaul. As there are very few of these customers, it might be possible to provision a limited number of "fixed" broadband connections per tower without affecting mobile service?

Chorus wouldn't / couldn't offer a Wireless Broadband service it would only be the mobile retailers unless some crazy wholesale setup was provided which I can't see happening but who knows.....

What I would expect Chorus to do is instead of laying Fibre they would just use DMR as a point to point microwave link. I was fairly sure they went down the Errisson path for some of it. The only issue is the hills as it's all point to point but it works extremely well if you check out Chorus & Spark (as Spark use DMR for some cell-sites for the same reason I suspect) in the RSM database the number of point to point links is non-trivial.

But this is all way off-topic where we all know the really rural folks on ASAMs/Conklins over stacked E1's are going to have pretty poor internet speeds and thus pull down any stats for a long time until someone funds the upgrade for the very small number of customers. Which I believe is sub 10k and still dropping.

KiwiSurfer

1456 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2077002 21-Aug-2018 18:31

When I went up to Pouto Point a while back I was impressed to find that the area had VDSL despite it being very isolated and not very highly populated. Did some research and found it was microwave fed from a cabinet on the main road to Pouto Point with a dish pointing to somewhere on the Auckland side of the Kaipara Harbour. I think it'd be great to see to see more DMR links feeding upgraded cabinets in areas where it is viable to replace the exisiting link with DMR. But I presume there are places where the terrain dosn't make DMR a feasible and/or cheap option. Long term I think the copper network should be removed entirely and the money spent on it previously, redirected into improving WBB coverage. No need for Chorus to be involved with this as they will eventually only do UFB. Spark/Voadafone already have a good WBB service which probably would offer a better serviced than the existing DSL service in most cases and which they can offer without Chrous' involvement.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

BarTender

3606 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2077097 21-Aug-2018 21:58

KiwiSurfer: When I went up to Pouto Point a while back I was impressed to find that the area had VDSL despite it being very isolated and not very highly populated. Did some research and found it was microwave fed from a cabinet on the main road to Pouto Point with a dish pointing to somewhere on the Auckland side of the Kaipara Harbour. I think it'd be great to see to see more DMR links feeding upgraded cabinets in areas where it is viable to replace the exisiting link with DMR. But I presume there are places where the terrain dosn't make DMR a feasible and/or cheap option. Long term I think the copper network should be removed entirely and the money spent on it previously, redirected into improving WBB coverage. No need for Chorus to be involved with this as they will eventually only do UFB. Spark/Voadafone already have a good WBB service which probably would offer a better serviced than the existing DSL service in most cases and which they can offer without Chrous' involvement.

That is also my point, but the problem is under Kiwi Share aka TSO aka the agreement Chorus has signed up to is that Spark/Chorus must supply service to an address if they have previously supplied service there or words to that effect from my understanding but I could be wrong here. So Chorus can't one day say "sorry we aren't providing service to this address from x date" which in effect would be the result of them killing BUBA aka Conklins.

Sure Spark/Vodafone/2D/Other WISPs may be able to provide a WBB service but it wouldn't be a wholesale service from Chorus. Meaning there would be a Equivalence of Input so other ISPs like Voyager couldn't order the service from Chorus or the above retail providers without some wholesale agreement mandated by legislation that they need to provide it.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2077101 21-Aug-2018 22:13

2020 can't come soon enough. So Chorus can start switching off the copper network in areas with UFB. It is annoying seeing Chorus techs digging up and fixing copper cables in my area. Considering that UFB has been available here for over 4 years.

The money that Chorus is being forced to spend on maintaining the copper network in UFB areas. Would be far better spent on things like cabinet upgrades and expanding the UFB areas.

In saying that, there doesn't seem to be any recent Conklin threads. Have enough people switched from Conklin connections to RBI. That the remaining people still on Conklins are now getting reasonable speeds? (at least for ADSL1).

hio77

12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lizard Networks

#2077105 21-Aug-2018 22:22

Aredwood:

In saying that, there doesn't seem to be any recent Conklin threads. Have enough people switched from Conklin connections to RBI. That the remaining people still on Conklins are now getting reasonable speeds? (at least for ADSL1).

moreso the noisey bunch have already moved.

i regularly see rejection for throughput cases due to conklins with no plan to upgrade :/

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

acjh58

43 posts

Geek

#2077255 22-Aug-2018 09:55

BarTender:

Chorus wouldn't / couldn't offer a Wireless Broadband service it would only be the mobile retailers unless some crazy wholesale setup was provided which I can't see happening but who knows.....

My point was that Chorus would be out of the loop (no pun intended!) if Crown Infra/RBI2, through its agreement/funding with the RCG, provided wireless broadband to these customers. Chorus' TSO requirement does not cover broadband delivery

acjh58

43 posts

Geek

#2077257 22-Aug-2018 10:08

Aredwood: 2020 can't come soon enough. So Chorus can start switching off the copper network in areas with UFB. It is annoying seeing Chorus techs digging up and fixing copper cables in my area. Considering that UFB has been available here for over 4 years.

The money that Chorus is being forced to spend on maintaining the copper network in UFB areas. Would be far better spent on things like cabinet upgrades and expanding the UFB areas.

Agree with the sentiment, but in reality, switching off copper in UFB areas right now would require all the affected premises to have fibre drops and the customers to have internal wiring/equipment and commercial arrangements to replace their current copper based services. I suspect that would be way more costly than occasional copper repairs. Also, turning off significant amounts of copper in 2020 might be optimistic (unfortunately) - might be driven by Spark PSTN upgrade??