'Size' of Internet in NZ

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188 posts

Master Geek

#418302 16-Dec-2010 22:55

DonGould:
ptinson: A KAREN resource that is visually pleasing and somewhat informative of what they do.

http://weathermap.karen.net.nz/

Paul

Nice! :)

That's an insanely cool thing!

Wonder if I can make one for my home network ;)

Damn you.. I had the option of cleaning downstairs or..

freitasm

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#418303 16-Dec-2010 22:56

Please post these here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=11352

DonGould

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#418364 17-Dec-2010 08:52

ojala: Damn you.. I had the option of cleaning downstairs or..

Nice! Now I want to know how I do that! That seems like a good weekend project as the rain has set in down here....

What did you say I need to read up on RDD?

Provide some links to some light reading starting with an overview?

D

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ptinson

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#418374 17-Dec-2010 09:26

DonGould:
ojala: Damn you.. I had the option of cleaning downstairs or..

Nice! Now I want to know how I do that! That seems like a good weekend project as the rain has set in down here....

What did you say I need to read up on RDD?

Provide some links to some light reading starting with an overview?

D

All here:

http://www.network-weathermap.com/

you need to be collecting things into RRD files, see here:

http://www.mrtg.org/rrdtool/

meat popsicle

ptinson

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#418397 17-Dec-2010 10:02

OK i asked if there is anything we can share and so far i can share some info around DNS.
So here goes...

We run two sets of DNS caches, the first is centralized, and the second is somewhat distributed.

A busy day on the centralized caches is ~49k queries/sec and mostly steady
A busy day on the distributed caches is ~7k queries/sec at the moment and growing

By a very large margin facebook is the biggest contributor to query load.

This doesn't give you any real size information i know but it's something:)

If i am allowed to share other info i will.

regards

Paul

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DonGould

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#418617 17-Dec-2010 19:01

ptinson: All here:

http://www.network-weathermap.com/

you need to be collecting things into RRD files, see here:

http://www.mrtg.org/rrdtool/

Thanks Paul, very very cool... guess I know what I'm spending the weekend reading about.

D

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

ojala

188 posts

Master Geek

#418637 17-Dec-2010 19:43

DonGould:

Nice! Now I want to know how I do that! That seems like a good weekend project as the rain has set in down here....

What did you say I need to read up on RDD?

Provide some links to some light reading starting with an overview?

The exercise continues, it's actually quite amazing how many devices in the home network can be monitored one way or another.. like all the wi-fi AP's for their traffic. The map even turned out to be useful as the MagiColor turned red when I shuffled the switches a bit -- it doesn't handle network changes too well and needed a power reset.

A brief background; the ADSL is actually an ADSL modem doing nothing but ADSL and Mikrotik RB450G firewall/router. Our building was finished in '99 but unfortunately LAN cabling didn't become de-facto standard until around those times -- it was just a matter of a year or two be could have had LAN cables instead of telephone. The phone cables didn't move in the conduits and I don't allow surface cables, so we just replaced the telephone jackets with LAN jackets and it works for up to 100M ethernet. We installed new GigE cables between the basement and the central (only empty conduits we found), where e.g. telephone cables come into the house. Luckily the house's telephone network was mostly a star-design.

The house is heavy concrete with hydronic underfloor heating so wi-fi doesn't go very far, thus many AP's around the house. Living room is a problem, there's nothing nearby. The green plug is a PLC, currently Netgear AV200 but I noticed that the new, 2.5x faster XAVB5001 is now shipping and ordered them yesterday. All switches were SNMP-capable 1800-8G's except for the one in the basement (ordered a new 1810-8G as well). Love those HP's compared to the plastic D-Link's and like.

For traffic analysis, I have enabled Netflow on the Mikrotik and use NFSen to collect the data (http://nfsen.sourceforge.net/). I am trying to figure out if our Internet traffic is "compatible" with our plan to move to NZ. Friends have said some nasty comments when I've mentioned the data caps.

For the WeatherMap exercise I installed PHP Network WeatherMap (http://www.network-weathermap.com/) and instead of MRTG I installed Cacti (http://www.cacti.net/). I've used MRTG in the past but Cacti looks pretty good, too. Cacti needs RRDtool but in general, quite easy to install on your average unix box. I've put it running on the FreeBSD box in the basement, it's an old NAS that one day I'll replace with a separate Qnap/Synology NAS and a separate small Unix server for the random needs. Right now, if something else the than power supply or drive breaks, it will be such a pain to find a replacement parts (3Ware 9500S-8, Asus A8V, AMD Athlon 64).

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703

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Master Geek

#418783 18-Dec-2010 11:37

ojala

188 posts

Master Geek

#418793 18-Dec-2010 12:35

AMS-IX is huge, but so is DE-CIX as well. Both are quite open about their overall traffic, technical details, etc. They are also big concentration locations for European traffic.

The largest IX in the Nordic countries is in Stockholm, ~200 Gbit/s during prime time.

For example a typical big finnish ISP would not only connect to Netnod in Stockholm, Sweden, but also to AMS-IX, DE-CIX and possibly LINX. My route from my ISP to geekzone.co.nz goes directly from Helsinki to New York (NYIIX), across the continent on Hurricane Electric, and across the Pacific on Pacnet from LA to Auckland.

kyhwana2

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#418794 18-Dec-2010 12:36

DonGould: http://weathermap.karen.net.nz/ is really interesting... I've been watching it and yet to see it hit orange anywhere... Wonder just how much unused capacity there is?

Would be nice if we could tap into that to feed it out the community when its not in use at the uni... what happens over summer when everyone's at home?

D

I believe there are now 1gige pipes to Australia and to LA.
(Used to be 2x155mbit/s to australia and 655mbit/s to LA)
http://karen.net.nz/topology/#supply

703

131 posts

Master Geek

#418827 18-Dec-2010 13:47

ojala: AMS-IX is huge, but so is DE-CIX as well. Both are quite open about their overall traffic, technical details, etc. They are also big concentration locations for European traffic.

The largest IX in the Nordic countries is in Stockholm, ~200 Gbit/s during prime time.

I wonder how South Korea's IX compare, they overtook Japan with the fastest broadband speeds and has been #1 for a while.

cyril7

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#418885 18-Dec-2010 18:52

Penultimatehop, how would these figures posted by ojala compare with the Singapore environment, I see Sing as a model of Asian connectivity, so would be interested in some broad brush stroke numbers.

Cheers
Cyril

ojala

188 posts

Master Geek

#418945 19-Dec-2010 00:13

703:

I wonder how South Korea's IX compare, they overtook Japan with the fastest broadband speeds and has been #1 for a while.

I think it depends. For example while AMS-IX is in the Netherlands, there is also NL-IX which is more focused on the Netherlands domestic market and peak at 113G. They do work closely with AMS-IX, though.

JPNAP has three site, Tokyo I, Tokyo II, and Osaka (http://www.jpnap.net/english/jpnap-tokyo-i/index.html). Tokyo I peaks at 170G, Tokyo I at 12G, Osaka at 48G.

KINX (http://www.kinx.net/eng/) say they peak at 60G.

SGIX doesn't look too big, the ports are just 1G. Probably just a local IX for a dozen members.

But following the traffic is pretty hard, there are some international players like Equinix (also present in Singapore), different type of peering policies (big guys vs. small guys), IX'es ran differently (commercial vs. semi-commercial), etc. and a lot of traffic never enters the IX'es. For example the IX'es in the US used to be the largest in the world and now they barely show in the map.

I find both JPNAP and KINX very small compared to the size of the countries and their broadband state.

PenultimateHop

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#418965 19-Dec-2010 04:17

cyril7: Penultimatehop, how would these figures posted by ojala compare with the Singapore environment, I see Sing as a model of Asian connectivity, so would be interested in some broad brush stroke numbers.

Hi Cyril,

Sorry I've been travelling for a couple of days so haven't followed the thread too closely. There's a bit to reply to but to answer your question quickly...

There's three IXPs in Singapore: SGIX which is a brand new government initiative (it does offer 10G ports, but the traffic volume here is very low right now); SOX which is a well established, but small IXP; and Equinix Singapore which is much much bigger. There's been a bit of political argy-bargy over what exactly the government is aiming to achieve with SGIX and their activity has upset Equinix a bit (especially since the govt asked for the equipment to be donated by vendors!); however it has been attempt to try and break into the international connectivity market and bring more operators to Singapore vs. say Hong Kong.

The total traffic across SGIX and SOX is pretty small (<2G at SGIX and <1G at SOX I believe), while Equinix-SG is pretty large. Most major operators at Equinix-SG use private interconnects but I've seen some stats which indicate 15-20G across the exchange fabric - a lot of that coming from content networks (AKAM, LLNW, MSFT, GOOG etc) that have POPs in Equinix -- although for the big sinks that is going across private 10G interfaces.

That there aren't a huge number of end-networks in Singapore changes the model a bit relative to even New Zealand, although access speeds here are typically higher. The international/domestic ratio is quite high... although tempered because many other regional operators are downstream transit customers of e.g. Singtel...

ojala don't forget in Japan there are multiple major IXPs. NSP-IXP2 (~20G), NSP-IXP3 (~7G), JPIX Tokyo (~120G), JPIX Osaka (~60G), JPIX Nagoya (~20G), as well as the JPNAP sites. The total traffic exchanged across the public fabrics is pretty large; it's just distributed across many fabrics.

In my hazy memory of Korea (it's been a long time!) they had one of the first IXPs to hit 200-300Gbps (DACOM?) long before AMSIX and co got there; however it seems their IXPs never really grew much beyond that and ended up mostly using private interconnects and relatively efficient management of their video traffic, which iirc is what drove most of the traffic. I could be wrong on this factoid but it was often bandied around at APNIC/APRICOT/JANOG etc meetings...

PH

--
Edit to add: the low number of end networks in Singapore has been something concerning the IDA for a while, and they hope that the NGNBN initiative will stimulate RSP activity. To a small degree this has happened with M1 actually getting into the broadband market in a big way, but I think they're never going to see a huge number of end ISP operators. The high speed access (100M-1G PIR with varying CIRs, usually starting around 15M) but low total subscriber count (500K residences) causes economy of scale issues. The fact that the customer base is distributed across two major networks and two smaller networks really skews the value of the IXPs significantly, other than allowing international players who land capacity into Singapore an easy way of passing traffic to those networks. SGIX has stimulated some domestic demand for IXP connectivity and the IDA is doing a good job of marketing why it's needed, but the traffic isn't there - yet.

ojala

188 posts

Master Geek

#418966 19-Dec-2010 06:13

Yep, I just did a quick look based on the size of various IX'es in the mentioned countries. Forgot the JPIX which does make Japan traffic more at the right level.

I believe AMS-IX hit ~200-300 Gbit/s around 2006.

What is interesting in NZ is the number of regional IX'es for such a small country in both size and population. While I agree it's a good idea to keep traffic local, the lack of properly priced national bandwidth must be one big reason for this situation.

Here we have geographically speaking three iX'es. One goes up to 1G, one goes up to 1.6G and one goes 25+G. And even a the 1G 75% of the traffic is from big content site, who peers there with one of the big ones. However even at these levels the few big ones prefer private peering at a location that fits the network best instead of bringing more traffic through the IX. Which makes sense, if a GE or 10GE circuit is cheap, why bother going through the IX. (Speaking from a national perspective)

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