Are we all getting taken for a ride with our caps and prices ???

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Are we all getting taken for a ride with our caps and prices ???

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#595066 14-Mar-2012 13:50

Also worth pointing out traffic from "caches" isn't free, the licensing costs are quite high per year and the more customers you have the more appliances you need in your caching cluster. Plus their is still the cost of domestic backhaul and handover.

codyc1515

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#595068 14-Mar-2012 13:52

Ragnor: Also worth pointing out traffic from "caches" isn't free, the licensing costs are quite high per year and the more customers you have the more appliances you need in your caching cluster. Plus their is still the cost of domestic backhaul and handover.

The only part of that I don't agree with here is the licensing costs. They charge content providers to put stuff on their, then they charge the content owner to provide it to ISPs and then they charge the ISP to provide it. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Ragnor

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#595076 14-Mar-2012 14:05

codyc1515:
Ragnor: Also worth pointing out traffic from "caches" isn't free, the licensing costs are quite high per year and the more customers you have the more appliances you need in your caching cluster. Plus their is still the cost of domestic backhaul and handover.

The only part of that I don't agree with here is the licensing costs. They charge content providers to put stuff on their, then they charge the content owner to provide it to ISPs and then they charge the ISP to provide it. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Hmm caching appliances like Bluecoat Cacheflow, Oversi Overcache, PeerApp, Allot whatever it's called... aren't quite the same as CDN providers like Akamai, Google, Limelight etc.

codyc1515

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#595078 14-Mar-2012 14:07

Ragnor:
codyc1515:
Ragnor: Also worth pointing out traffic from "caches" isn't free, the licensing costs are quite high per year and the more customers you have the more appliances you need in your caching cluster. Plus their is still the cost of domestic backhaul and handover.

The only part of that I don't agree with here is the licensing costs. They charge content providers to put stuff on their, then they charge the content owner to provide it to ISPs and then they charge the ISP to provide it. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Hmm caching appliances like Bluecoat Cacheflow, Oversi Overcache, PeerApp, Allot whatever aren't quite the same as CDN providers like Akamai, Google, Limelight etc.

Ah, yes, my mistake I was thinking of ones like Akamai, not like Bluecoat..

raytaylor

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#595324 14-Mar-2012 21:18

codyc1515:
Ah, yes, my mistake I was thinking of ones like Akamai, not like Bluecoat..

I thought akamai would supply the caching system for free if you had above X thousand customers behind it?

I pay about $300 per year for my basic http and youtube caching from appliansys. During the peak hours i believe it gives me an extra 20 percent performance - still much cheaper than buying the international traffic direct - but that is quite a cheap system. There are more expensive systems that will do torrents etc. and clustering. But the initial cost of the unit was about $2500 and it will support up to 80 subscribers.
With a 3 year life, thats about $3.54 per month, per subscriber.

As the subscriber base gets bigger, the economics get much better - but it does give you an idea on how expensive caching can be, and why ISPs will still charge for data coming from the cache. But it can often make things cheaper in the long run.

Ray Taylor

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#595352 14-Mar-2012 21:48

raytaylor: But the initial cost of the unit was about $2500 and it will support up to 80 subscribers.
With a 3 year life, thats about $3.54 per month, per subscriber.

thats a hell of a lot of cache boxes power consumption, rackspace and management overhead for a decent sized ISP... i assume they have a bigger, and much more expensive model, that handles more subscribers?

either way, you couldnt simply take those prices and apply them to a telecom/telstraclear/slingshot/orcon etc.

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raytaylor

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#595357 14-Mar-2012 22:02

Regs:
raytaylor: But the initial cost of the unit was about $2500 and it will support up to 80 subscribers.
With a 3 year life, thats about $3.54 per month, per subscriber.

thats a hell of a lot of cache boxes power consumption, rackspace and management overhead for a decent sized ISP... i assume they have a bigger, and much more expensive model, that handles more subscribers?

either way, you couldnt simply take those prices and apply them to a telecom/telstraclear/slingshot/orcon etc.

That is true.
Yes you can get larger models and ones that support clustering. But it does give you an idea that to implement caching can be beneficial, still cost alot. but can be cheaper in the long run.

If you do it right like slingshot have, caching can work really well.

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moxpearl

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#604520 3-Apr-2012 13:27

Well telecom seem to be listening...

http://www.telecom.co.nz/whatsnew/moredata

DravidDavid

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#604700 3-Apr-2012 19:16

moxpearl: Well telecom seem to be listening...

http://www.telecom.co.nz/whatsnew/moredata

Are they listening? Or are they being forced to compete with the much more competitive plans available now? Slingshot proved an unlimited plan was workable when the largest ISP in the country said it was not. When I was looking for an internet plan, Telecom were last on my list because they seemed so much more expensive than the rest. I think Telecom are playing catch up.

moxpearl

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#604747 3-Apr-2012 20:33

Its catchup to Slingshot.. but its a big leap over the others ..

Eg

$110 on Orcon = 60GB
$95/$105 on Telecom now = 120GB

Double the data and for cheaper... nuff said

DonGould

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#604778 3-Apr-2012 21:15

Is Telstra's $75 for 40Gb starting to have a bite?

Are we going to continue to see round after round of pencil sharpening this year?

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gzt

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#604779 3-Apr-2012 21:16

DravidDavid:
moxpearl: Well telecom seem to be listening...

http://www.telecom.co.nz/whatsnew/moredata

Are they listening? Or are they being forced to compete with the much more competitive plans available now? Slingshot proved an unlimited plan was workable when the largest ISP in the country said it was not. When I was looking for an internet plan, Telecom were last on my list because they seemed so much more expensive than the rest. I think Telecom are playing catch up.

Slingshot's approach is not workable for everyone. It's a very good sign when the market leader (by customer #s) is moving. Some of the holdouts will be sure to follow, maybe some innovative deals on the way as well.

DravidDavid

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#604830 3-Apr-2012 22:34

gzt:
Slingshot's approach is not workable for everyone. It's a very good sign when the market leader (by customer #s) is moving. Some of the holdouts will be sure to follow, maybe some innovative deals on the way as well.

From what I've seen, most people seem to be experiencing problems with their own house wiring, rather than Slingshot's service. Sure, there have been outages and some problems...But nothing any other ISP does not suffer from.

Myself and many other friends on the plan have all reported amazing speed around the clock. For me, its a no brainer.

dclegg

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#604835 3-Apr-2012 22:44

DravidDavid:
moxpearl: Well telecom seem to be listening...

http://www.telecom.co.nz/whatsnew/moredata

Are they listening?

Well, they seem to be listening to our data usage at least :-)

Prior to Christmas, we rarely hit our 60GB cap. Since then, and due to my kids both getting iPod Touches for Christmas, we exceed it most months. Our cap will now be going up to 120GB, which gives us more than enough breathing room.

For now ;-)

moxpearl

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#604871 4-Apr-2012 07:35

Telecom have been running a lot of TV adverts about usage recently... eg interviews with families saying how much they use and might in the future...

Still.. overnight telecom has just made every other ISPs current plans worthless (Well except the unlimited plans a few ISPs offer)

Orcon and Vodafone will be the biggest losers ...

For the "Lower End"

Orcon Genius $80 for 30GB ... (12 month contract)

Why would you do that when you can go..

Telstraclear $75 for 40GB ... including 2 months free..(3 if you bring your own modem) ...

And on the larger end

Vodafone $130 for $120GB ..

Why would you do that when you can go..

Telecom $105 for 120GB... ($95 per month + free tivo if you use the code)

Remember.. for $95 on orcon you will get.. 40GB .. heh

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