HD and replacement HD failures 10 days apart

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DS248

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#281032 26-Jan-2021 12:59

Eleven days ago the main data drive (6TB WD Red) in my 4yr 10 month old PC failed suddenly (original HD). That was late on a Friday night. Had not been aware of any warning signs it was about to happen (though possibly that is a problem with having a case with very good sound insulation??). Copied a file into an email (no problems) then ~3 mins later tried to copy another file and got an error message. About a minute later I noticed D: drive had disappeared from File Manager. Subsequently tested the drive in another PC and as an external drive but clearly it was dead. Could hear a clicking sound with the case walls off and when operating as an external drive. At that point unimpressed with WD, Red in particular (have significantly older drives in other PCs working fine). Two - three years ago had a Red in my 4-bay NAS fail (both drives bought around the same time so that drive was only 2 - 3 years old when it failed). Of course no big problem the first time - just pull the dead drive and put in a new one and let the NAS rebuild the drive (Raid 5).

First thing Sat morning down to local PB Tech and got a new HD. This time decided to go 'high end' for peace of mind so got a 10TB Seagate Exos enterprise level disk with 5 yr warranty - supposedly one of the more reliable drives around.

Then yesterday, just 9 days after installing the Exos it also failed suddenly. Working fine one minute, then suddenly would not save a file to disk followed by D: drive again disappearing from File Manager. Subsequently confirmed that the drive had failed also - not working as an external drive, plus making clicking and other 'weird' noises.

I appreciate random failures can occur but the similarity of the failures and an enterprise level disk failing in just 9 days? Seems more likely there is an underlying cause, either ex the PSU (Corsair RM650) or the motherboard (Asus Z170-AR)?

My assumption is that if anything it would be more likely the PSU but a couple of tech types suggest it could equally well be the MB.

Any advice on this would be greatly welcomed.

I need to urgently replace the disk (will probably go for the same) but will as a minimum replace the PSU as that is a fairly trivial, low-cost option. Will possibly get an HX750 - though 750w is overkill on my PC (primarily business use so only has a mid-tier graphics card - no gaming).

Replacing the MB would be an order of magnitude bigger operation - starting with investigating current options for CPU, RAM, GPU, ... etc. Currently do not have time for that as this is one of the busiest times work-wise for me.

I will proceed replacing the PSU and failed disk as I need to get fully back in operation asap.

But I would much appreciate comments re the potential for the MB being the problem?

Thus far nothing else seems to have had problems. C: is a 'heavy duty' SSD (1.2TB Intel 750 series PCIE 3.0) and is what has been keeping me afloat!

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#2642325 26-Jan-2021 13:50

Have a look at the sata cable and/or sata power (if using a molex to sata power like I am).

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#2642610 26-Jan-2021 20:40

Wouldn't be the first ASUS motherboard I've seen where an SATA controller failed.

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#2642614 26-Jan-2021 20:48

Nothing to do with the recent vulnerability in windows?

DS248

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#2642684 26-Jan-2021 22:47

Took the drive back to PB Tech today. They tested it on the spot & confirmed it is kaput. No chance of it working again. They have ordered in a replacement as they didn't have another one of that model in the local store.

I discussed options for replacing the PSU but to my surprise the person I was dealing with said it wasn't necessary. Seemed convinced the PSU had nothing to do with the failure - just bad luck. I assume that was based on how the drive responded (noise & vibration) but possibly also because nothing else has been affected. PC is still working fine except I now only have C: drive.

TBH I am still nervous about plugging the replacement (when I get it) into the existing PSU. Or put another way, still a bit shaken! Certainly will not be connected to the same power port on the PSU. I am still inclined to replace the PSU first unless there was a general consensus that the PSU was unlikely to be the cause of the failure.

The damage was definitely not caused by mechanical impact or vibration, at least not in my hands (of course never know what might have occurred earlier to an in-store product - albeit under lock and key). It was well protected in the case (Fractal Design Define R5).

What type of damage would a power spike cause?

DS248

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#2642688 26-Jan-2021 23:09

One quick clarification. By power spike, I am referring to something possibly emanating from a faulty PSU. The PC sits behind a 'pure sine wave' APC 1500 VA Smart-UPS, so is not directly connected to mains power (& in any case, there were no mains power fluctuations when either of the two drives failed).

mattwnz

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#2642715 27-Jan-2021 01:26

Sometimes new drives do fail after a short period of time. You don't know it hadn't been dropped before you got it. As you said, the old drive was old anyway. But I have had drives disappear and have been fine, and then reappear when I reboot windows, and those drives test fine and still working years later. The I have had drives disappear and die, or start clicking and then eventually die. That is computers and harddrives for you. Haven't had too many drives fail through over the 30+ years I have used PCs luckily.

timmmay

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#2642781 27-Jan-2021 06:32

Your first drive failed because it was old. Normal. Your second drive had early life failure, which is also normal - drives tend to fail early or last years. I wouldn't search for a smoking gun, get another drive and put it in.

If this all turns to custard you can restore from backups. As has been said many times, RAID is not a backup. You want your backups to be offsite and either offline or versions, so they survive a fire / theft in your primary location.

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SATTV

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#2642802 27-Jan-2021 08:33

I have had drives fail out of the box and drives fail after six week so 10 days is possible, remember a spinning drive is electrical and mechanical so has two points of failure.

A computer PSU is a SMPS so no power surge is going to get past it, it is not possible, there will be protections up the wazoo, if there was a power surge the primary i.e. 230V side will fail.

It is just bad luck sadly.

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DS248

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#2642833 27-Jan-2021 09:17

SATTV:

I have had drives fail out of the box and drives fail after six week so 10 days is possible, remember a spinning drive is electrical and mechanical so has two points of failure.

A computer PSU is a SMPS so no power surge is going to get past it, it is not possible, there will be protections up the wazoo, if there was a power surge the primary i.e. 230V side will fail.

It is just bad luck sadly.

John

Thanks for the replies. They restore a bit of confidence.

Almost certainly was not mains power related. As mentioned, the PC sits behind a Smart-UPS and there was no flickering of room lights or of the monitor at the time.

In terms of the PSU issue, I was thinking more of the potential for a failing capacity within the PSU to cause problems?

1101

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#2642850 27-Jan-2021 09:51

DS248:

In terms of the PSU issue, I was thinking more of the potential for a failing capacity within the PSU to cause problems?

Youre overthinking things

Even the most horrid crappy PSU doesnt cause HD's to fail (at least its not common & I have seen it in the last 20+ years, excpt twice when the PSU died & zapped everything)

10TB Seagate : youre really pushing capacity for a single drive . Cram more on to those platters , more chance things can go wrong (just opinion) .

both "clicking" , thats a common HD failure symptom . HD hardware failure . Wont be caused by a PSU or motherboard issue .

1101

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#2642855 27-Jan-2021 10:00

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-2019/

3% fail rate for some drives , .5% for some others

Also Some model of drives historically just werent as reliable , over the past many years . Some were just duds on average . Cough cough bigfoot :-)

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#2642874 27-Jan-2021 10:29

I do not trust seagate so it's no surprise that another seagate drive failed with in 2 weeks.

Personal experience I had a seagate skyhawk 3tb die in a day. Wasn't dropped or bashed around during transport from PBTech to my desktop.

From then I refuse to touch seagate.

If the psu did any damage to the drive you wouldn't hear clicking. You'd smell smoke. Think it's a coincidence and you've just had a run of bad luck.

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MadEngineer

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#2643272 27-Jan-2021 23:36

Could be a whole bunch of reasons for this.

Both drives may have suffered a similar knock or increase in temperature at some point. One drive may have gone bad with vibration or heat generation causing one nearby to fail. I think we all know that period in time as you swap out one dead RAID member knowing that Murphy will dictate that there's a chance another nearby is not far off either.

Controller failures are not uncommon.

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mattwnz

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#2643274 28-Jan-2021 00:06

DS248:

SATTV:

I have had drives fail out of the box and drives fail after six week so 10 days is possible, remember a spinning drive is electrical and mechanical so has two points of failure.

A computer PSU is a SMPS so no power surge is going to get past it, it is not possible, there will be protections up the wazoo, if there was a power surge the primary i.e. 230V side will fail.

It is just bad luck sadly.

John

Thanks for the replies. They restore a bit of confidence.

Almost certainly was not mains power related. As mentioned, the PC sits behind a Smart-UPS and there was no flickering of room lights or of the monitor at the time.

In terms of the PSU issue, I was thinking more of the potential for a failing capacity within the PSU to cause problems?

Personally I have never had a PSU fail or cause problems. But I don't buy the cheapest. But if yours has had a lot of use, and things do wear out, then there is probably no harm in changing it and keeping the other as a spare. Also helps to eliminate it as a point of cause.

DS248

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#2643276 28-Jan-2021 00:17

@MadEngineer

No, the new drive that failed went in after the original failed drive was taken out. They were never in the PC together. In both cases they were the only HD in the PC; ie. PC has only a single HD + seven empty HD slots (c: drive is a PCIE SSD). HD attached with vibration isolating mounts. Heaps of empty space & large low speed fans. Very quiet PC that runs cool.

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