Recommend a UPS for UFB modem, router, switch

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#983133 10-Feb-2014 08:05

I finally have UFB in, so it's time to look at a UPS again, as working in a power cut was a significant motivation for moving to UFB. I've been doing a bit of reading, example here and here, it seems that a 1500VA UPS will only power an ONT/router for a few hours - I'd have thought it'd last a bunch longer. That's not really going to do what I want if I have it plugged in all the time - for example if there's a big earthquake while I'm at work it could be flat before I get home. The general idea is in an emergency, where we have no power for several days, I want to be able to to run the router for short periods to give us communications (in addition to our cellphones which are on different networks).

So I'm after alternate suggestions, perhaps:
- Have the UPS plugged in and charging, but not actually supplying power to anything?
- Have the UPS automatically shut down as soon as it detects power loss, then bring it up manually as required?
- Is there any supported, safe way of adding additional battery(ies) to a UPS?
- Is it practical and economic to have a generator of some kind wired into the house? One big enough to run a fridge, basic lighting, and communications?

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#983141 10-Feb-2014 08:30

After the Chch earthquakes I built my own 12V UPS using a picoUPS (to control the battery charging and mains/battery switching) and a buck boost DC-DC power supply (which lets you control via USB the power output voltage etc)

Running off that is my Draytek ADSL modem, an Apple Airport Extreme and a Siemens Gigaset VoIP base station - (yes this was a real pain because the devices use different voltages)

Works perfectly for now until something breaks then it will be a pain!

It is a shame there aren't some nice DC UPS products you can just buy, I know there is one the alarm companies here use but it is so expensive.

Jase2985

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#983142 10-Feb-2014 08:30

timmmay: I finally have UFB in, so it's time to look at a UPS again, as working in a power cut was a significant motivation for moving to UFB. I've been doing a bit of reading, example here and here, it seems that a 1500VA UPS will only power an ONT/router for a few hours - I'd have thought it'd last a bunch longer. That's not really going to do what I want if I have it plugged in all the time - for example if there's a big earthquake while I'm at work it could be flat before I get home. The general idea is in an emergency, where we have no power for several days, I want to be able to to run the router for short periods to give us communications (in addition to our cellphones which are on different networks).

- Have the UPS plugged in and charging, but not actually supplying power to anything?

While a good idea the batteries only have a finite lifetime

- Have the UPS automatically shut down as soon as it detects power loss, then bring it up manually as required?

thats not an ups then. thats a battery powered inverter.

- Is there any supported, safe way of adding additional battery(ies) to a UPS?

depends on the ups you get, we have eaton powerware ones at work that you can add extra batteries to

- Is it practical and economic to have a generator of some kind wired into the house? One big enough to run a fridge, basic lighting, and communications?

not really better to just run extension cords from the generator

We have a 3000kva ups at work that runs a single computer (intel processor with amd graphics card so nothing flash, used for navigation) and when we loose power the ups runs for about 130minutes. the power at work is netoriously bad so the ups is on battery regularly.

i would use a small ups to tide you over when the power initially goes off then use a generator to keep things going later on down the track. the generator will give you a lot more bang for your buck and last a lot lot longer than an ups could.

timmmay

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#983150 10-Feb-2014 08:44

Good points guys. Having a UPS convert from 12V up to 240V then transformers convert back to 12V (or whatever) does sound incredibly inefficient. Does anyone happen to know what power the ONT and Fritzbox need? How about a good way to supply them the power they want? I don't want anything unreliable or jury-rigged, but this seems a lot more sensible than a UPS for my use case. PicoUPS looks interesting, but it's a very DIY solution.

You can get petrol generators for $295 to $5000 to 1- 2.4KW models. This 1.5kw unit is $295, I have to guess the power that comes from that is pretty dirty and would need to go through a UPS before it got to electronics. I've also read some UPS's don't accept dirty power and won't charge. Honda units are more like $1500 I think, but I presume they're better quality. Proper sine wave units could be $2K. That seems a bit expensive for emergency preparation, given we're pretty unlikely to need it.

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#983155 10-Feb-2014 08:50

timmmay: ... it seems that a 1500VA UPS will only power an ONT/router for a few hours - I'd have thought it'd last a bunch longer...

I use a 1500VA APC UPS in my SOHO office. It powers a modem, router, and one PC.
I recently kept it going for more than 6 hours during a prolonged power failure, with one quarter charge remaining - the batteries were one year old at the time.
Bear in mind that batteries need replacement every 3 years or so.

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#983160 10-Feb-2014 08:59

UPS seem to be better quality than many others. Still I'm thinking picoUPS might be a better idea long term - cheaper, more practical. I saw a here a 12AH battery powered a low power home server for 4H, I figure I'd get a few of those batteries as they're not particularly expensive, which should last a fair bit longer with just an ONT/router. I think I have a few smaller ones lying around home already, and a separate charger.

jonathan18

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#983164 10-Feb-2014 09:13

timmmay: Good points guys. Having a UPS convert from 12V up to 240V then transformers convert back to 12V (or whatever) does sound incredibly inefficient. Does anyone happen to know what power the ONT and Fritzbox need? How about a good way to supply them the power they want? I don't want anything unreliable or jury-rigged, but this seems a lot more sensible than a UPS for my use case. PicoUPS looks interesting, but it's a very DIY solution.

You can get petrol generators for $295 to $5000 to 1- 2.4KW models. This 1.5kw unit is $295, I have to guess the power that comes from that is pretty dirty and would need to go through a UPS before it got to electronics. I've also read some UPS's don't accept dirty power and won't charge. Honda units are more like $1500 I think, but I presume they're better quality. Proper sine wave units could be $2K. That seems a bit expensive for emergency preparation, given we're pretty unlikely to need it.

I've seen inverter generators for decent prices on one-day sale websites occasionally - and that model was perfectly capable for this sort of purpose. Being an inverter, it was also nicely compact.

I've debated exactly the same issue as you're considering here (also raised in a post on GZ a few months ago), ie backup for UFB. I've thus far not bought a UPS , so am following this thread with interest. In retropect, I think I should have bought that cheap inverter generator - the reality is for short-term power outages 3G internet is fine; for anything of a decent duration, it appears a UPS isn't going to go for long enough, whereas a small inverter generator will give power for as long as you've got spare petrol, and can be used to power many other devices (eg, charging a laptop).

In the end I didn't buy that generator as I wondered if I'd be best to buy one with such an output as to be able to operate some larger items such as a microwave - given the price for ones of this size, I tried to convince family members to "invest"; they refused, even when I said as a result I would ensure they wouldn't be allowed to benefit from the generator in a disaster!

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timmmay

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#983167 10-Feb-2014 09:17

I think you're right - a generator would be the way to go, especially if it can power say a fridge, a few lights (LED plug in most likely), and communications equipment. A 2.4kw generator should be enough right? Can anyone suggest one?

I suspect a UPS would be required to protect any electronics, but one with a small battery that's known to work fine with dirty power input would be best. I suspect APS would be a leading contender.

timmmay

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#983369 10-Feb-2014 14:46

This page is interesting - PicoUPS with a separate power regulator so the higher voltages don't kill the router/ONT. Seems easy enough really.

I'd want it all in a box to prevent it being damaged, with reliable connectors, and a good sized SLA battery. I wonder if a larger battery would need a separate PSU or if the Pico one would be fine for it. These things can end up being kinda expensive in NZ, parts can be pricey.

There's also prebuilt stuff like this, which is pretty cheap.

dolsen

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#983383 10-Feb-2014 15:17

timmmay: This page is interesting - PicoUPS with a separate power regulator so the higher voltages don't kill the router/ONT. Seems easy enough really.

How about something like this. Probably a bit overkill but should be fine.

timmmay

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#983387 10-Feb-2014 15:30

OpenUPS looks even better than PicoUPS. It's made by the same people who make PicoUPS, which has similar core functionality but not the same PC/USB interface. The OpenUPS delivers 12V by itself though, the Pico requires 13-18VDC and delivers that to the output, and when it's on battery delivers battery voltage of 13.8V. All in all the pico would kill devices, the OpenUPS wouldn't, and pico with additional hardware would be more hassle. OpenUPS, plus a battery, plus a power supply might cost $300 - similar to a mains UPS but with much longer runtime.

Nice find, thanks :)

gundar

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#983409 10-Feb-2014 16:01

Sounds like you are going to spend some money.

I suggest you start by noting what the wattage and voltage requirements are on all your gear and possibly buying a power meter. I got a cheap one from Jaycar that tells me the draw amongst other factors and seems pretty accurate when put against something standard, like a lightbulb or other device that is well marked.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MS6115

Once you know what you are up against and have a revised list of essential items to power, you can confidently shop for either a UPS or a pile of batteries.

What I did was make sure that everything I wanted during a catastrophie is either 12 or 5v. I then collected up a pile of 12v batteries that were cycled out of an unused UPS facility and connected them permanently to a panel and a solar controller and a trickle charger. That way they get power in the day and draw from mains at night. SLA batteries must be maintained and if run flat, often never quite recover.

I also got a 5v USB converter for a car (those cigarett lighter things that power USB devices)

Now I can get 12v or USB 5v anytime, up to several hours, depending on draw (get that meter or learn how to use an ammeter). I have ensured that things like modems and switches run on 12v, so there is no need to put in a 240v convertor just to go back to a lower voltage. I keep my latest and most recent mobile phones setup at all times ready to go and connected to wifi, so I can get email, basic Internet etc. anytime on short notice. Providing of course that the street cabinet is powered.

If you find that you have a modem that requires 7v or 30v, you can buy small DC-DC convertors that will do this for you at a cost of heat and some current - they vary from $20 to $100 based on load, reliability and design.

If you are starting from scratch you can look at things like 12v caravan fridges or DC powered chilly bins as part of what you want to achieve. I don't need a fridge, but keep a 12v flouro tube and some other 12v basic equipment handy.

None of what I did was complicated, no custom equipment, all parts were off-the-shelf and the solar panel stuff just worked after a few hours of online reseach. My standby handset is an old iPhone 3G, it has no sim and just works in wireless only mode but 111 should work without a sim card or I can get one in there pronto from another handset without loosing my contacts/email. It is setup to sync with all my contacts and mail so it is always up to date (personal photos too which include photos of DL and passport etc). It is hacked so that it can be a wireless AP, too (if only 3G is running at the time).

WARNING - do not parallel connect 12v batteries unless they are the same voltage. This may be what you think can be achieved by adding batteries to a UPS, but what happens is all the charge in one battery runs to the flatter of the two (or three or n) and potentially you have hundreds of Amps going across a cable designed for one battery. I have seen cables melt when this happens. The work around is to charge each battery fully, have them all about .5v apart and connect one at a time over a period of time.

Another WARNING - even though SLA means sealed lead acid, it isn't actually sealed (they have pressure relief valves) and can let off toxic or explosive gas, so wherever you leave your batteries - make sure it's somewhat ventilated.

timmmay

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#983448 10-Feb-2014 16:56

The ONT and router both take 12V, router has a 2A PSA ONT 1A, but power consumption is approx 18W according to my power meter. The Fritzbox has a standard plug, but the ONT has some weird kind of power connector I'd have to identify.

Solar could be interesting, but I think one of those hardware chargers is probably easier. You still have to get power from the batteries to the devices.

I'd use identical new batteries with this system. They'd be in a cupboard in a bedroom that's not often used.

gundar

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#983501 10-Feb-2014 17:37

timmmay: The ONT and router both take 12V, router has a 2A PSA ONT 1A, but power consumption is approx 18W according to my power meter. The Fritzbox has a standard plug, but the ONT has some weird kind of power connector I'd have to identify.

Solar could be interesting, but I think one of those hardware chargers is probably easier. You still have to get power from the batteries to the devices.

I'd use identical new batteries with this system. They'd be in a cupboard in a bedroom that's not often used.

18W at 12v is 1.5A.

Those little SLA batteries you get in cheap PSU are usually 7.5Ah. I generally use a 60% rule of efficiency with good batteries so my guess is one of those batteries will run your two pieces of gear for about 2.5 hours maybe more if the battery is maintained well, which means, amongst other things, it's charge should be kept up and it should only be used as a buffer, so to speak, for your power needs.

I got a power cut-off from Jaycar - it is a cigarette lighter device that switches off when voltage drops under 11.5v to protect 12v devices from 'browning out', it was about $20 yet is good up to 10A, it's a cheaper option than a DC-DC convertor and will also protect the battery from going under 11.5v. You'd only need to make up some cables to your equipment and setup a reliable form of charging to protect the battery and they'd all play nicely. Obviously a bigger battery would work out more efficiently and the charger should be larger than the rate of draw, possibly 2A to make up for heat and cable loss. Finally, the consideration of whether the street cabinet would be powered during your outage would be my next concern?

That was how I started out, then I added batteries and a few little off-the shelf gagdets and eventually, a panel - mostly to 'see it all working' but yeah, if there is a major power failure I can keep up with the news, call family and have a GPS system at my disposal (my current mobile has offline maps).

Remember that if you have a wifi point running during a catastrophe, you might make yourself a visible target when your neighbours realise you have disposable power ;-)

Also, please add ventilation to the cupboard door, top and bottom, to allow some air to flow past the batteries, keep things cool and maybe let out the gas if a leak develops.

Keep us posted on your set-up.

jnimmo

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#983521 10-Feb-2014 18:07

timmmay: This page is interesting - PicoUPS with a separate power regulator so the higher voltages don't kill the router/ONT. Seems easy enough really.

I'd want it all in a box to prevent it being damaged, with reliable connectors, and a good sized SLA battery. I wonder if a larger battery would need a separate PSU or if the Pico one would be fine for it. These things can end up being kinda expensive in NZ, parts can be pricey.

There's also prebuilt stuff like this, which is pretty cheap.

Yeah that is the website that inspired me to build mine. I don't think the OpenUPS was available at the time I did it, but yes OpenUPS looks much easier than the PicoUPS + a DC-DC

Just a disclaimer though I think you're only technically allowed to use the manufacturer supplied power supply for the ONT boxes..

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